Any point in watching alkalinity?

[TMMAray]

You realize Table Salt, which is typically iodized, is not the same as uniodized sea salt? Right? Table Salt is not NaCl, usually it's I2NaCL. Sea Salt, is purified NaCl, typically.

You are extremely mistaken as to the amount of iodine in iodized salt. If table salt were I2NaCl, it would be quite toxic. I'm not sure who told you that's the composition of table salt, but they're completely wrong.

Whether it's sea salt or table salt, they are both around 98-99% NaCl, meaning that they are, for all purposes relating to acid-base balance in your body, identical.

 

[hardheart]

You are extremely mistaken as to the amount of iodine in iodized salt. If table salt were I2NaCl, it would be quite toxic. I'm not sure who told you that's the composition of table salt, but they're completely wrong.

Whether it's sea salt or table salt, they are both around 98-99% NaCl, meaning that they are, for all purposes relating to acid-base balance in your body, identical.

You're correct, it would be KINaCl, I spoke to quickly. And I'm not so sure that table salt is 99% NaCl. Sounds like a stat you pulled out of your ass and can't back up for shit.

 

[TMMAray]

You're correct, it would be KINaCl, I spoke to quickly. And I'm not so sure that table salt is 99% NaCl. Sounds like a stat you pulled out of your ass and can't back up for shit.

...and you're still missing the point that it would be about 1000 parts NaCl to each 1 part KI.

Also, google "composition of salt" and find any source that suggests that any kind of NaCl based salt isn't composed of approximately that much NaCl, with negligible (from a standpoint of chemical reactions) amount of everything else.

 

[hardheart]

...and you're still missing the point that it would be about 1000 parts NaCl to each 1 part KI.

Also, google "composition of salt" and find any source that suggests that any kind of NaCl based salt isn't composed of approximately that much NaCl, with negligible (from a standpoint of chemical reactions) amount of everything else.

What I find is this is true after its purification and before it is iodized. I find nothing about table salt containing iodine, however. So, it's the same elementary bullshit we feed our children - the actual fact that table salt and sea salt are not the same fucking thing.

Long story short, Table Salt contains Iodine (and potassium), sea salt, does not. This at the core is a fact that any reasonable person could use to distinguish the two on a chemical and nutritional level.

 

[TMMAray]

Again, it distinguishes them from a nutritional standpoint, because your daily needs of iodine are in micrograms. Using the table salt from my cupboard, we get this per 1.5g serving:

Sodium: 590 milligrams
Iodine: 45% RDA, which equals 67.5 micrograms

So by weight, there's 8740 parts sodium per 1 part iodine
NaCl is approximately 39.7% sodium by weight, so there's about 22,000 parts NaCl per 1 part Iodine.

...and since iodine's atomic mass is greater than the mass of an NaCl molecule, if we compare them from a molar standpoint, which is what really matters when we're discussing acidity/alkalinity, it's even more lopsided. (about 48,000 times NaCl to I)

The point here is that when something has about 48,000 NaCl molecules for every 1 of iodine, the iodine is not chemically significant when talking about its effect on the pH of a solution that it's being added to. The anti-caking agents in table salt, and the very small amounts of assorted calcium, magnesium, etc. salts in sea salt would both have a much more substantial effect on the chemical reactivity of the substance.

Point being, an extremely small amount of iodine is needed in your diet. A deficiency or excess of it can be very bad for you. However, as it pertains to pH, 100 or so micrograms of any substance is simply not enough to significantly affect the human body.

 

[hardheart]

Again, it distinguishes them from a nutritional standpoint, because your daily needs of iodine are in micrograms. Using the table salt from my cupboard, we get this per 1.5g serving:

Sodium: 590 milligrams
Iodine: 45% RDA, which equals 67.5 micrograms

So by weight, there's 8740 parts sodium per 1 part iodine
NaCl is approximately 39.7% sodium by weight, so there's about 22,000 parts NaCl per 1 part Iodine.

...and since iodine's atomic mass is greater than the mass of an NaCl molecule, if we compare them from a molar standpoint, which is what really matters when we're discussing acidity/alkalinity, it's even more lopsided. (about 48,000 times NaCl to I)

The point here is that when something has about 48,000 NaCl molecules for every 1 of iodine, the iodine is not chemically significant when talking about its effect on the pH of a solution that it's being added to. The anti-caking agents in table salt, and the very small amounts of assorted calcium, magnesium, etc. salts in sea salt would both have a much more substantial effect on the chemical reactivity of the substance.

Point being, an extremely small amount of iodine is needed in your diet. A deficiency or excess of it can be very bad for you. However, as it pertains to pH, 100 or so micrograms of any substance is simply not enough to significantly affect the human body.

Did you just go through the pains of "proving" that iodine in table salt is negligible from a chemical standpoint as it relates to ph, or your body's ph reaction to it, to immediately contradicting your own point?

My original point stands: there are legitimate reasons why someone drawing up a diet would be ok with sea-salt and not ok with table salt. You...seem to have agreed and disagreed with this point throughout your postings.

 

[TMMAray]

You can certainly have reasons to choose sea salt over table salt.

That's completely separate from the fact that saying sea salt is "highly alkalizing" and table salt is "highly acidic" is patently false.

That is the only argument I've made. Regarding effect on your body's pH, the two are effectively identical.

In what way did I ever contradict myself about that?

Edit, actually re-reading it, I assume you're referring to my statement about anti-caking agents and such being more significant. That was not meant to imply that they effectively change the salts' effect on your body's pH, just that there is much, much more of them than iodine, and if anything were to have an effect on the chemistry of the salt, it would be them. That having been said, they are not going to have a significant difference on your body's pH, let alone enough for one to be in the "most acidic" category, and the other in the "most alkaline" category.

 

[nemosson]

I can't speak of the science of things, but I can tell you that when I"m starting to overtrain or get exhausted all the time, I can feel my body is acidic. Apples, bananas, onions and garlic help.

 

[TMMAray]

Explain exactly how you can "feel" that your body is acidic.

Not to split hairs, but if your body were acidic (pH below 7) you would either be dead, or very close to it, but I know you meant "the pH is lower than it should be."

 

[nemosson]

Explain exactly how you can "feel" that your body is acidic.

Not to split hairs, but if your body were acidic (pH below 7) you would either be dead, or very close to it, but I know you meant "the pH is lower than it should be."

I can't sleep well, wake up tired, have aches and pains, and am def more irritable. Yeah I did say I can't speak of the science of things, but you get it!

 

[anaconda]

...this is the part where you display scientific support for those statements. Saying that your body will "wear out" its pH regulation system is like saying that living in a cold climate will "wear out" your body's temperature regulation system. That's simply not how anatomy works.

Again, it is just as bad for your body's pH to be too high, so this idea of eating a bunch of alkalizing food would theoretically put just as much strain on your system.

Another sign that these people are completely full of shit: They list "sea salt" as a highly alkalizing food, but "table salt - NaCl" (their words, not mine) as a highly acidic food. I'm curious what they think sea salt is composed of.

I don't know who you are, or where you came from, but please - stay awhile.

I like your style; you'll fit right in.

 

[Nozza]

I can't speak of the science of things, but I can tell you that when I"m starting to overtrain or get exhausted all the time, I can feel my body is acidic. Apples, bananas, onions and garlic help.

You cannot possibly say your body is acidic and that you feel it.

Your body's pH is regulated to a very narrow range. If it went noticeably acidic you'd be in hospital or a coffin.

 

[Nozza]

What I find is this is true after its purification and before it is iodized. I find nothing about table salt containing iodine, however. So, it's the same elementary bullshit we feed our children - the actual fact that table salt and sea salt are not the same fucking thing.

Long story short, Table Salt contains Iodine (and potassium), sea salt, does not. This at the core is a fact that any reasonable person could use to distinguish the two on a chemical and nutritional level.

Actually that's not even true.

Sea salt's chemical composition depends on where it was harvested. It can contain potassium and a number of other chemicals. It can include very small amounts of iodine. The levels depend on how refined it is after evaporation.

However the vast majority of any kind of salt you get for human consumption is NaCl and the other chemicals are present in such small quantities, and we eat such a small amount anyway, that it does not make a significant difference to supposed acidity of your diet. Or do you have scientific facts to show this is untrue?

Also iodine is required by the body and was added to salt to help counter wide-spread iodine deficiency.

 

[shunyata]

So, randy couture's diet. I personally don't see the point of it, but are there any benefits or side effects of following it?

Main focus is to maintain ratio of alkalinity to acidity in your body.
The alkaline diet is mostly vegetarian. In addition to fresh vegetables and some fresh fruits, alkaline-promoting foods include soy products and some nuts, grains, and legumes.

Web sites promoting the alkaline diet discourage eating acid-promoting foods, which include meat, fish, poultry, dairy products, processed foods, white sugar, white flour, and caffeine.

The alkaline diet is basically healthy, says Marjorie Nolan, RD, an American Dietetic Association spokeswoman.

"It's a diet of fresh fruits and vegetables, plenty of water, avoiding processed foods, coffee, and alcohol, which are all recommendations for a generally healthy diet anyway," Nolan says. "But our body regulates our pH between 7.35 and 7.45 no matter how we eat."

Yeah I agree with the RD here. The diet is reasonably healthy because it's a high vegetable low sugar diet.

All the pH stuff is garbage bro science. One of those things where someone says something true (you should eat more vegetables, stop drinking soda) and then backs it up with a made up bullshit reason.

It's like saying you should look both ways before you cross the street only to make sure that Jesus is behind your shoulder.




The pH crowd is so retarded that they actually beleive it's a problem if your urine is acidic on a pH test. Even if they don't personally beleive that they'll use it as a reason why you need to buy their book or supplement protocol.

Some areas of the body are supposed to be acidic like the stomach, the urinary tract, urine in general, and the vagina. Blood pH is ~7.4 and if it varies significantly from that you have a medical problem, either acidosis or alkalosis. Alkalosis is not a goal to aim for.

This is the exact reason that semen contains an alkalinity buffer so that sperm aren't damaged or killed by remaining uric acid in the urinary tract as the sperm exits the penis.

Vaginas are supposed to be acidic and it's a natural defense against infection.

Stomach uses HCL to break down food.

 

[shunyata]

The fact that it is healthier to eat a high fiber high produce moderate animal protein low sugar diet than it is to eat a low fiber high fat high protein high sugar diet does not in any way support the claims of alkaline living crowd.

It just means that eating an omnivorous diet with lots of fiber and low sugar is good for your body. I would hope that most adults understand that.


Honestly this reminds me of Irish folktales that were used to scare children away from dangerous bodies of water.

"Well when we told the kids not to swim in that river because of a deep current and submerged trees they went swimming anyways, so instead we've decided to tell them that an evil faerie lives in the water and her child was taken from her when she was a young maiden so now she grabs the ankles of young children who swim above her and drags them down into a watery grave to sleep by her side for eternity."

Needless to say the bullshit supernatural story proved more effective at scaring children into proper behaviour.




I see this as being the same thing. A fairy tale invented to trick people into eating more vegetables, drinking water, and putting down the soda.

 

[hardheart]

Yeah I agree with the RD here. The diet is reasonably healthy because it's a high vegetable low sugar diet.

So that's all it takes, veggies and low sugar?

All the pH stuff is garbage bro science.

I think you need to read up on the definition of science.

One of those things where someone says something true (you should eat more vegetables, stop drinking soda) and then backs it up with a made up bullshit reason.

Do you know what causes ulcers? Do you think your body doesn't have a ph level? While I agree there needs to be more studying done, tossing out the entire idea of balancing your body's ph is stupid.

It's like saying you should look both ways before you cross the street only to make sure that Jesus is behind your shoulder.

There's no reason to start religion bashing here. Take that shit to the War Room or the OT.

The pH crowd is so retarded that they actually beleive it's a problem if your urine is acidic on a pH test. Even if they don't personally beleive that they'll use it as a reason why you need to buy their book or supplement protocol.

You're so retarded because you made an assertive statement but then you sort of contradicted it.

Some areas of the body are supposed to be acidic like the stomach, the urinary tract, urine in general, and the vagina. Blood pH is ~7.4 and if it varies significantly from that you have a medical problem, either acidosis or alkalosis. Alkalosis is not a goal to aim for.

Agreed, but, when looking at a typical diet, could the body's ph, specifically blood, be whacked?

This is the exact reason that semen contains an alkalinity buffer so that sperm aren't damaged or killed by remaining uric acid in the urinary tract as the sperm exits the penis.

Fair enough. Maybe, the alkaline diet is a conspiracy to increase fertility? /gasp

Vaginas are supposed to be acidic and it's a natural defense against infection.

Stomach uses HCL to break down food.

So that's the answer to a clean vagina then? Magic vag-acid? It's not enzymes and bacteria that create an acidic environment? Awesome! MAGIC VAG-ACID FOR THE MOTHERFUCKING WIN! WAR MAGIC VAG-ACID!

 

[shunyata]

I understand your anger, afterall you are faced with the choice of dismissing me, lashing out at me (which you've chosen), or accepting that you have either A) been scammed or are B) a paid schill helping to scam others.

But the whole "alkaline water" movement is all lies based upone the ability to make lots of money by exploiting the inability of most lay people to identify an incomplete and perverted understanding of basic chemistry and physiology.

That being said, I fully agree that a diet rich in fresh produce with moderate protein and fat that relies on drinking actual water instead of high sugar beverages like soda is generally healthy for a broad portion of the population. But that has almost nothing to do with the bodies pH buffer system.

Here's a great page written by a retired chemisty proffessor that goes into great detail to debunk myths about water. This link on the page specifically deals with the big fat scam that is alkaline water.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

Here are some highlights.

On the "research" that demonstrates benefits to alkaline water consumption:

"A few articles on this subject have appeared in the scientific literature. Most are from Japan, and none that I have seen clearly states the composition of the water used

 

[hardheart]

I understand your anger, afterall you are faced with the choice of dismissing me, lashing out at me (which you've chosen), or accepting that you have either A) been scammed or are B) a paid schill helping to scam others.

My jimmies remain firmly unrustled. If you think that's lashing out at you, you're clearly unfamiliar with internet arguments. It took you plagiarism and 400 words to argue with my 30 words...dude sup?

Re victim/schill: I'm not a victim and I don't care one way or the other but I like to see active debate with credible thought and respectable sources provided in back up to strongly voiced opinions.

But the whole "alkaline water" movement is all lies based upone the ability to make lots of money by exploiting the inability of most lay people to identify an incomplete and perverted understanding of basic chemistry and physiology.

Maybe. Maybe not. YOU don't have enough to prove that. One chemistry professor explaining that the stomach is very low ph anyway isn't exactly "proof."

That being said, I fully agree that a diet rich in fresh produce with moderate protein and fat that relies on drinking actual water instead of high sugar beverages like soda is generally healthy for a broad portion of the population. But that has almost nothing to do with the bodies pH buffer system.

So...the body does or does not have a ph buffer system? Can or can it not be manipulated to one's benefit through diet? What fucking side are you on? Make sense please. I'm tiring of your ill-explained shenanigans.

 

[shunyata]

So...the body does or does not have a ph buffer system? Can or can it not be manipulated to one's benefit through diet? What fucking side are you on? Make sense please. I'm tiring of your ill-explained shenanigans.

The body has a buffer system that primarily uses bicarb to deal with abnormally low pH. Bicarb is not a reasonably exhaustible resource.

Diet (outside of total starvation) does not have a significant effect on that buffer system. Diet is important for many reasons. pH balance is not one of them.

And linking a source while quoting exercepts from it is hardly plagiarism.


Above all my point is that while a healthy diet is important alkalinity is not a goal to strive towards and anyone who tries to convince you otherwise either bought a lie or is trying to sell you one.

And it does not matter that I'm using a single source when you realize that all of these facts about acids, bases, and the buffer system are corroborated by every accepted modern chemistry and physiology textbook in print.

 

[shunyata]

Your body doesn't maintain its' pH effortlessly. If your diet is too acidic your body is going to have to use acid neutralizing compounds to counteract it. If it runs out of compounds, which will surely happen if your diet is consistently too acidic, it's going to have to take calcium away from your bones and teeth to do it. It would not be surprising that it would cause your bones to fracture more easily. And if your body is continuously struggling to maintain it's proper pH, you open to the doors to all sorts of health problems ranging from heart disease to diabetes. You don't need to follow a diet solely based on alkaline foods. But most people have acid diets, so they need to make a conscious effort to bring it back in balance.

This is what I mean. You do not run out of bicarb. This is nonsense.