Any MMA fighter training without lifting weights?

[Iron Nick]

Wow, I never would have guessed Kara-France could pull that. He's a natural flyweight and slight of frame. I'd say Cejudo and Lineker have the most brute strength among guys who have fought at 125, but both of them outgrew the division. Cejudo has the talent to win state powerlifting titles if he chose to pursue it, but who wants to compete for gas money instead of international championships?

Ever see Latifi's 200x33 deadlift?


Jones couldn't do this. But we know who'd win a fight though so it doesn't really matter.

Me neither - a friend of mine (i'm sure you've seen me posting pictures of him on here, IIRC) deadlifts 235 kg and although his frame is naturally rather small as well, he's like 85-90kg all the time and a bodybuilder, not a fighter, so for a fighter as small as Kara-France to be that strong is kinda crazy.

He's by no means a "bodybuilder" type of fighter either when it comes to his physique...

makes you wonder how strong Costa is (or how strong he could be)

What do you base your assumptions on Lineker and Cejudo being that strong on btw? Just curious.

That video of Latifi is crazy lmao - he obviously pauses between the reps, but 33 times 200kg is still absolutely bananas.

It's a shame he's fighting at heavyweight, when he could possibly be able to make middleweight really.
He'd be amongst the best wrestlers there as well imo.
The guy is kinda interesting in general, he looks like he's taken straight out of God of War or something, haha.

Obviously agree with strength not necessarily being relevant in MMA.

Which i find awesome in a way. You know Aleksandar Rakic, right?
His best back squat was 165kg in 2017 and his best best deadlift 210kg in 2016, his best split clean was 130kg and his best jerk was 110kg.

Spoiler: Source

(timestamped)

All of which sound impressive to me, but it makes Kara-France's deadlift so much crazier.
Imagine someone told you a 135er is roughly as strong as this 6'5" guy:

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

makes you wonder how strong Costa is (or how strong he could be)

The crazy thing is he doesn't even have a serious strength routine- he's mostly doing stuff that this forum would consider suboptimal training. Lots of machines, bodybuilding routines with lighter weights, high rep kettlebells, etc. And he still gets that jacked WHILE UNDER USADA TESTING. That's the astonishing part. Imagine him at KSW or Rizin, free from the piss police to mutate into the next level.

What do you base your assumptions on Lineker and Cejudo being that strong on btw? Just curious.

Their physicality and durability. They just seem to steamroll guys and shrug off their attacks. They clearly enjoy a raw strength advantage over their opponents. I see the same with Jessica Andrade as well.

 

[Iron Nick]

The crazy thing is he doesn't even have a serious strength routine- he's mostly doing stuff that this forum would consider suboptimal training. Lots of machines, bodybuilding routines with lighter weights, high rep kettlebells, etc. And he still gets that jacked WHILE UNDER USADA TESTING. That's the astonishing part. Imagine him at KSW or Rizin, free from the piss police to mutate into the next level.

Was just busy yearching YT for bits of him doing weightlifting, but as you said: negative.
I wonder if he just does it when he's alone or if he's not doing it at all.
I mean sure, you don't depend on the classic compound exercises if your only goal is gaining mass, but they surely help/it's very unusual seeing someone that big not doing it.

As for lighter weights: i remember Jay Cutler saying that he never really trained heavy during his career, which makes him the opposite of Ronnie Coleman and in the long run, Cutler's approach is obviously more healthy, lol.

Haha, he'd probably look like Marius Pudzianowski at KSW or Rizin <45>

Their physicality and durability. They just seem to steamroll guys and shrug off their attacks. They clearly enjoy a raw strength advantage over their opponents. I see the same with Jessica Andrade as well.

That's interesting - i've never seen too many fights of them unfortunately, but you might just be right here. Cejudo's athleticism is apparent and i'm fairly certain that every (and i mean every) olympic gold medalist in history is pretty f*cking strong.
Lineker strikes me as a strong guy too, especially because the guy always had a f*ckton of power.

Nice example with Andrade. I actually also think that she hits no less hard than Weili, probably harder than her and is at least as strong physically.
Her fight against Gadelha was just crazy. Andrade picked her up and slammed her down numerous times, so satisfying to watch.

On the topic of strong wrestlers: i would love to see some weightlifting numbers from DC too, the way he picked up guys like Barnett, Gus and Henderson and slammed them down is just a thing of beauty.
He's also incredibly fast for his size and the fact that he's... well, for the fact that he's fat, haha.

Will never get tired watching these.

and last but not least: Ngannou...

The guy's hands would be decently fast for a 185er in that clip, let alone someone who's like 80 pounds heavier. It's unbelievable. Pick literally any video of the guy hitting pads and you'll be impressed at how fluent and fast he is.

I'm actually kinda mad at him because he doesn't use this crisp technique in the cage as well lol.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

Me neither - a friend of mine (i'm sure you've seen me posting pictures of him on here, IIRC) deadlifts 235 kg and although his frame is naturally rather small as well, he's like 85-90kg all the time and a bodybuilder, not a fighter, so for a fighter as small as Kara-France to be that strong is kinda crazy.

He's by no means a "bodybuilder" type of fighter either when it comes to his physique...

makes you wonder how strong Costa is (or how strong he could be)

What do you base your assumptions on Lineker and Cejudo being that strong on btw? Just curious.

That video of Latifi is crazy lmao - he obviously pauses between the reps, but 33 times 200kg is still absolutely bananas.

It's a shame he's fighting at heavyweight, when he could possibly be able to make middleweight really.
He'd be amongst the best wrestlers there as well imo.
The guy is kinda interesting in general, he looks like he's taken straight out of God of War or something, haha.

Obviously agree with strength not necessarily being relevant in MMA.

Which i find awesome in a way. You know Aleksandar Rakic, right?
His best back squat was 165kg in 2017 and his best best deadlift 210kg in 2016, his best split clean was 130kg and his best jerk was 110kg.

Spoiler: Source

(timestamped)

All of which sound impressive to me, but it makes Kara-France's deadlift so much crazier.
Imagine someone told you a 135er is roughly as strong as this 6'5" guy:

Kara-france is one of them guys who if you got physical with would be an absolute nightmare, his core strength will be amazing, I've dealt with guys like him before.

I am torn on Rakic's lifts... He is a big guy and elite athlete who dedicates his life to training I feel like a 165kg squat and 210kg are pretty low? I know multiple normal guys who can match that and beat it and they aren't athletes.

I get he isn't training to lift weights and he would kill 99% of humans but I feel like a guy his size should be deadlifting 270kg+ and squatting 180kg+

 

[Iron Nick]

Kara-france is one of them guys who if you got physical with would be an absolute nightmare, his core strength will be amazing, I've dealt with guys like him before.

I am torn on Rakic's lifts... He is a big guy and elite athlete who dedicates his life to training I feel like a 165kg squat and 210kg are pretty low? I know multiple normal guys who can match that and beat it and they aren't athletes.

I get he isn't training to lift weights and he would kill 99% of humans but I feel like a guy his size should be deadlifting 270kg+ and squatting 180kg+

True about Kara-France and guys like him, i can imagine.

To be fair with Rakic, those 1RMs are a few years old now so we don't know if he's gotten better.
I see why you'd expect him to be stroner but on the other hand it really does not seem to be that necessary in MMA, despite the benefits.

I have yet to see a video of Adesanya for example, where he actually lifts really heavy weights, but he had no issue getting back to his feet when Hulk Romero got a hold of him...

 

[Hidden_Hand]

Was just busy yearching YT for bits of him doing weightlifting, but as you said: negative.
I wonder if he just does it when he's alone or if he's not doing it at all.
I mean sure, you don't depend on the classic compound exercises if your only goal is gaining mass, but they surely help/it's very unusual seeing someone that big not doing it.

As for lighter weights: i remember Jay Cutler saying that he never really trained heavy during his career, which makes him the opposite of Ronnie Coleman and in the long run, Cutler's approach is obviously more healthy, lol.

Haha, he'd probably look like Marius Pudzianowski at KSW or Rizin <45>

That's interesting - i've never seen too many fights of them unfortunately, but you might just be right here. Cejudo's athleticism is apparent and i'm fairly certain that every (and i mean every) olympic gold medalist in history is pretty f*cking strong.
Lineker strikes me as a strong guy too, especially because the guy always had a f*ckton of power.

Nice example with Andrade. I actually also think that she hits no less hard than Weili, probably harder than her and is at least as strong physically.
Her fight against Gadelha was just crazy. Andrade picked her up and slammed her down numerous times, so satisfying to watch.

On the topic of strong wrestlers: i would love to see some weightlifting numbers from DC too, the way he picked up guys like Barnett, Gus and Henderson and slammed them down is just a thing of beauty.
He's also incredibly fast for his size and the fact that he's... well, for the fact that he's fat, haha.

Will never get tired watching these.

and last but not least: Ngannou...

The guy's hands would be decently fast for a 185er in that clip, let alone someone who's like 80 pounds heavier. It's unbelievable. Pick literally any video of the guy hitting pads and you'll be impressed at how fluent and fast he is.

I'm actually kinda mad at him because he doesn't use this crisp technique in the cage as well lol.

I don't know about Cormiers lifts but Kyle Snyder regularly posts his lifts and some are very impressive.

200kg squat
147kg OHP
275kg shrug
183kg bench
240kg deadlift

I suspect he has more in him aswell as some are quite old so he will be stronger now at only 24 aswell. Also I don't know what the college testing is like? I assume it is strict so he is natural?

 

[Hidden_Hand]

True about Kara-France and guys like him, i can imagine.

To be fair with Rakic, those 1RMs are a few years old now so we don't know if he's gotten better.
I see why you'd expect him to be stroner but on the other hand it really does not seem to be that necessary in MMA, despite the benefits.

I have yet to see a video of Adesanya for example, where he actually lifts really heavy weights, but he had no issue getting back to his feet when Hulk Romero got a hold of him...

I have got into it with guys similar size and build to him with my job, guys who if you saw int he street you would laugh at and it's unbelievable how string they can and their cardio is ridiculous.

Yeah I mean I guarantee you that Rakic is way stronger than hi lifts suggest, fighters/grapplers/wrestler strength seems to come from the core or something because a 180lbs wrestler could out power and dominate a 300lbs powerlifter.

I think it's more to do with dynamic strength, lifting weights is a static movement but fighting and grappling is constantly changing levels and angles, it's another beast entirely.

On the subject of lifting heavy, I spoke to a pro rugby player once who deadlifted 285kg and he told me that he thought constantly trying to go heavy was useless and I should aim to bench and squat 100kg and deadlift 100-130kg and overhead press 100kg and master them weights he said after that there wasn't much benefit, you just get big and blocky and it's better to stay fluid and loose.

I always thought it was weird but when I see the best fighters in the world deadlifitng 120-130kg maybe there is something in there? This guy was one of the biggest, hardest blokes I ever met aswell.

 

[Iron Nick]

I don't know about Cormiers lifts but Kyle Snyder regularly posts his lifts and some are very impressive.

200kg squat
147kg OHP
275kg shrug
183kg bench
240kg deadlift

I suspect he has more in him aswell as some are quite old so he will be stronger now at only 24 aswell. Also I don't know what the college testing is like? I assume it is strict so he is natural?

Those are impressive.

What's bananas though is for a guy who squats 200 and DLs 240 to bench 183 and OHP 147kg... jeez!

 

[aus101]

Heres the video of him deadlifting 120kg

He was around top 15 if i remember back then



But yeah i think he lifted when he wrestled

When my beltless double over hand was 265 for 5 I could mix grip with a belt 440. It’s nothing crazy here but also hardly untrained. Now he does what, 600 plus?

 

[Sano]

Kara-france is one of them guys who if you got physical with would be an absolute nightmare, his core strength will be amazing, I've dealt with guys like him before.

I am torn on Rakic's lifts... He is a big guy and elite athlete who dedicates his life to training I feel like a 165kg squat and 210kg are pretty low? I know multiple normal guys who can match that and beat it and they aren't athletes.

I get he isn't training to lift weights and he would kill 99% of humans but I feel like a guy his size should be deadlifting 270kg+ and squatting 180kg+

Why? A 165kg squat and 210kg DL is "decently" strong for someone who isn't into powerlifting. That might be where his natural ceiling is at before diminishing returns, and putting in more time on the lifts might be detrimental. He's not a powerlifter and expecting him to have close to a 2xBW squat and 3xBW DL seems a tad unreasonable. It doesn't really make any difference that there are guys who are not athletes that can outlift him in some specific lifts.

 

[TimeToTrain]

The Diaz bros looks like they do 90% cardio and 10% weight lifting

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

I don't know about Cormiers lifts but Kyle Snyder regularly posts his lifts and some are very impressive.

200kg squat
147kg OHP
275kg shrug
183kg bench
240kg deadlift

I suspect he has more in him aswell as some are quite old so he will be stronger now at only 24 aswell. Also I don't know what the college testing is like? I assume it is strict so he is natural?

Snyder's a beast, but his nemesis Sadulaev doesn't even lift at all and will go down in history as the better wrestler. Dagestanis think American wrestlers spend too much time lifting when they should be drilling on the mat instead. The results speak for themselves- a resisting human is a better training stimulus than a barbell. Lifting is safer though and I get why some coaches program it. But American sports programs overemphasize its importance, probably because of football (where it truly is necessary).

When my beltless double over hand was 265 for 5 I could mix grip with a belt 440. It’s nothing crazy here but also hardly untrained. Now he does what, 600 plus?

The only 600+ dl I've seen him do was off blocks. As if a guy with his leverages needs more assistance.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Kevin Lee told on JRE that he only do calisthenics.

GSP said he only lifted weights for the looks and to become more markeatable.

 

[Cole train]

Snyder's a beast, but his nemesis Sadulaev doesn't even lift at all and will go down in history as the better wrestler. Dagestanis think American wrestlers spend too much time lifting when they should be drilling on the mat instead. The results speak for themselves- a resisting human is a better training stimulus than a barbell. Lifting is safer though and I get why some coaches program it. But American sports programs overemphasize its importance, probably because of football (where it truly is necessary).


The only 600+ dl I've seen him do was off blocks. As if a guy with his leverages needs more assistance.

I actually wanted to say that they really dont lift weights in wrestling in russia.

Figured it was off topic since this is mma

Also think zabit magomedsharipov doesnt lift

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

I actually wanted to say that they really dont lift weights in wrestling in russia.

Figured it was off topic since this is mma

Also think zabit magomedsharipov doesnt lift

None of the Dagestanis lift. From what I've read about their training programs, they still do old school S&C to this day- running, bodyweight exercises, the occasional kettlebell and sandbag drills. But even that is kept to a minimum so they can focus on the actual fight training itself.

The ones who train America will occasionally touch a barbell, but not with enough regularity to be proficient at it. Here's Khabib struggling with a 195lb bench press:

Of course he would still manhandle men who can bench twice as much with ease.

It seems like it's only the Anglo nations (US, UK, Australia) where combat athletes prioritize lifting so much. But then again, the occasional mass monster comes out of the eastern bloc:

 

[belph]

Snyder push pressed 147, I've never seen him strict press anything. Also for everyone talking about certain wrestlers never lifting

Gonna hedge my bets on this guy lifting here and there.

Kevin Lee told on JRE that he only do calisthenics.

GSP said he only lifted weights for the looks and to become more markeatable.

I believe firas said that wasn't true on JRE. And even if he didn't that's horseshit, you don't power snatch for looks.

 

[Badger67]

Snyder push pressed 147, I've never seen him strict press anything. Also for everyone talking about certain wrestlers never lifting

Gonna hedge my bets on this guy lifting here and there.



I believe firas said that wasn't true on JRE. And even if he didn't that's horseshit, you don't power snatch for looks.

IIRC Karelin was a farmer. Every farmer i've done BJJ/wrestling with has been immensely stronger than anyone else i've grappled with.

 

[xPINKx]

IIRC Karelin was a farmer. Every farmer i've done BJJ/wrestling with has been immensely stronger than anyone else i've grappled with.

Yeah, but there's also footage of him training with weights. There's also old instructional videos on lifting for wrestlers from the USSR and there are strength standards for wrestlers from former Eastern Bloc-countries. This whole "in Mother Russia you no lift weight, you lift people"-myth doesn't hold up well.

 

[Badger67]

Yeah, but there's also footage of him training with weights. There's also old instructional videos on lifting for wrestlers from the USSR and there are strength standards for wrestlers from former Eastern Bloc-countries. This whole "in Mother Russia you no lift weight, you lift people"-myth doesn't hold up well.

For sure, But Karelin's base has always been farm work. The idea that the soviet block didn't lift weights is silly, they tend to be resourceful first and foremost. Some of the best exercise science comes out of Russia.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Why? A 165kg squat and 210kg DL is "decently" strong for someone who isn't into powerlifting. That might be where his natural ceiling is at before diminishing returns, and putting in more time on the lifts might be detrimental. He's not a powerlifter and expecting him to have close to a 2xBW squat and 3xBW DL seems a tad unreasonable. It doesn't really make any difference that there are guys who are not athletes that can outlift him in some specific lifts.

Chad Wesley Smith said much the same thing. In his Powerlfiting prime he could Squat 900lbs with a belt and knee wraps. Now his main focus is on BJJ and he's nowhere near that level of maximal strength. Although he's still a monster compared to most guys, Smith says he now trains much lighter, because going too heavy risks injuries and eats away at the recovery time he needs when training and competing in BJJ.

He's also a firm believer in BJJ guys using specialist bars like the Safety Bar and Swiss or Football bar that allow them to train with their hands in a neutral grip. Sure, this won't make you as strong as someone who is deadlifting etc with an Olympic bar. But it will develop more than enough strength for grappling when combined with good technique.