"Antiglycolytic" training

[deadshot138]

Has anyone ever heard of this training? Pavel Tsatsouline released a book a little while back about it and it's about building aerobic capacity through zone 2 training. Basically it's insanely low intensity for 20-30 mins so as to not "burn sugar" during your workout and instead burn fat. Seems far fetched to me but I admittedly am not a scholar on the matter. An example would be 6 kettlebell swings a minute for 20 mins with half your bodyweight. You're never supposed to get out of breath or have a heart rate elevated above a certain threshold.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Has anyone ever heard of this training? Pavel Tsatsouline released a book a little while back about it and it's about building aerobic capacity through zone 2 training. Basically it's insanely low intensity for 20-30 mins so as to not "burn sugar" during your workout and instead burn fat. Seems far fetched to me but I admittedly am not a scholar on the matter. An example would be 6 kettlebell swings a minute for 20 mins with half your bodyweight. You're never supposed to get out of breath or have a heart rate elevated above a certain threshold.

that is just tempo/interval work

 

[Fahcough]

sounds like extended warm ups . Or active rest day

 

[don't ask]

Has anyone ever heard of this training? Pavel Tsatsouline released a book a little while back about it and it's about building aerobic capacity through zone 2 training. Basically it's insanely low intensity for 20-30 mins so as to not "burn sugar" during your workout and instead burn fat. Seems far fetched to me but I admittedly am not a scholar on the matter. An example would be 6 kettlebell swings a minute for 20 mins with half your bodyweight. You're never supposed to get out of breath or have a heart rate elevated above a certain threshold.

No, that's not correct. It is not at all low intensity.

It's power training with intervals that let you avoid the metabolic waste that blunt your ability to express power. You're doing an explosive activity with 80% of your max effort in intervals (usually 15s work and 45s rest, but I his newest book has you doing an extremely short burst -- those 6 swings --every 30 seconds) until you hit a stop sign (heart rate isn't coming down enough, technique failure, decrease in power, etc.). The idea is to train yourself to express maximum power for a huge period of time. At least once every 14 days you do a glycolytic session (traditional HIIT -- high work, low rest) and push yourself to go all out. When you're peaking for a sports event that has a glyclytic component, you go hard on the glycolytic training for two weeks before the competition.

I've been doing it for most of 2024 and it's some of the best strength & conditioning training I've ever found for my body. My strength has increased, my power and strength endurance feel endless, I never feel run down after a workout, and I can still grind like i need to during martial arts.

 

[deadshot138]

No, that's not correct. It is not at all low intensity.

It's power training with intervals that let you avoid the metabolic waste that blunt your ability to express power. You're doing an explosive activity with 80% of your max effort in intervals (usually 15s work and 45s rest, but I his newest book has you doing an extremely short burst -- those 6 swings --every 30 seconds) until you hit a stop sign (heart rate isn't coming down enough, technique failure, decrease in power, etc.). The idea is to train yourself to express maximum power for a huge period of time. At least once every 14 days you do a glycolytic session (traditional HIIT -- high work, low rest) and push yourself to go all out. When you're peaking for a sports event that has a glyclytic component, you go hard on the glycolytic training for two weeks before the competition.

I've been doing it for most of 2024 and it's some of the best strength & conditioning training I've ever found for my body. My strength has increased, my power and strength endurance feel endless, I never feel run down after a workout, and I can still grind like i need to during martial arts.

I have the AXE book and the protocol is every minute, not 30 seconds. You're liking the results you've gotten? Do you do 3 days a week? 4? What else are you doing with it?

 

[don't ask]

I have the AXE book and the protocol is every minute, not 30 seconds. You're liking the results you've gotten? Do you do 3 days a week? 4? What rule are you doing with it?

Maybe I'm mixing up my products, but doesn't AXE have you working up to a set every 30 seconds? Anyways, I'm doing my own blend of various Strongfirst programs:

Monday: push and squat strength work for 10-20 minutes, followed by 20-40 minutes of anti-glycolytic work (usually swings or Olympic cleans and snatches)

Tuesday: pull and hinge strength work for 10-20 minutes, followed by 20-40 minutes of anti-glycolytic work (usually an Iron Cardio session of various kettlebell moves; sometimes a strength aerobic circuit of one-arm push-up variation, one-arm pull-up variation and weighted pistols; sometimes explosive push-ups, pull-ups and squats)

Wednesday: AXE day - a bit of corrective work and then 60 minutes of swings (every second week I do glycolytic work on this day

Thursday; off

Friday: off

Saturday: Turkish get-ups and 10x10 heavy kettelbell swings

Sunday: off

I'll terminate whatever I'm doing the moment my strength or power starts to diminish. Over time, this let me build up a huge work capacity for strength and explosiveness -- I can go hard for more than an hour without getting weaker, slower or tired -- which I definitely enjoy on the mats. I train MMA two days a week and submission grappling two days a week.

 

[deadshot138]

Maybe I'm mixing up my products, but doesn't AXE have you working up to a set every 30 seconds? Anyways, I'm doing my own blend of various Strongfirst programs:

Monday: push and squat strength work for 10-20 minutes, followed by 20-40 minutes of anti-glycolytic work (usually swings or Olympic cleans and snatches)

Tuesday: pull and hinge strength work for 10-20 minutes, followed by 20-40 minutes of anti-glycolytic work (usually an Iron Cardio session of various kettlebell moves; sometimes a strength aerobic circuit of one-arm push-up variation, one-arm pull-up variation and weighted pistols; sometimes explosive push-ups, pull-ups and squats)

Wednesday: AXE day - a bit of corrective work and then 60 minutes of swings (every second week I do glycolytic work on this day

Thursday; off

Friday: off

Saturday: Turkish get-ups and 10x10 heavy kettelbell swings

Sunday: off

I'll terminate whatever I'm doing the moment my strength or power starts to diminish. Over time, this let me build up a huge work capacity for strength and explosiveness -- I can go hard for more than an hour without getting weaker, slower or tired -- which I definitely enjoy on the mats. I train MMA two days a week and submission grappling two days a week.

The every 30 seconds with AXE is the "double espresso" shot that you do every other week once you've been doing AXE for 3 months

 

[don't ask]

The every 30 seconds with AXE is the "double espresso" shot that you do every other week once you've been doing AXE for 3 months

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[vision1]

Swings are overrated
Don't @ me

 

[deadshot138]

Swings are overrated
Don't @ me

You can use snatches too. The rep scheme is the same.

 

[vision1]

You can use snatches too. The rep scheme is the same.

I'm just bugging you guys but I'd take swings over KB snatches any day.

 

[Fahcough]

I'm just bugging you guys but I'd take swings over KB snatches any day.

Snatches seem so much more energy draining and dynamic. Swings are too ... rhythmic. Can move half body weight in repetition over and over. Snatches you have to focus each one and the horsepower drops accordingly.

 

[maximus__]

Has anyone ever heard of this training? Pavel Tsatsouline released a book a little while back about it and it's about building aerobic capacity through zone 2 training. Basically it's insanely low intensity for 20-30 mins so as to not "burn sugar" during your workout and instead burn fat. Seems far fetched to me but I admittedly am not a scholar on the matter. An example would be 6 kettlebell swings a minute for 20 mins with half your bodyweight. You're never supposed to get out of breath or have a heart rate elevated above a certain threshold.

They are trying to do everything to cater to people that don't want to just do some Z2 LSS work.

The whole idea is explosive movements done with full recovery, but keeping your overall heart rate around that easy LSS zone. They do recommend substituting with running also to cover that area. IMO people feel good because they are fully recovered and just doing less random work. I followed minimalist programs for years and they have their place but these type of programs get you minimal results. The end result is you eventually just get better at doing that chosen exercise for those reps in that period. Great for short periods of training, but when nearly every program involves a swing protocol for time, you will get good at swinging a kettlebell for time.

 

[vision1]

Snatches seem so much more energy draining and dynamic. Swings are too ... rhythmic. Can move half body weight in repetition over and over. Snatches you have to focus each one and the horsepower drops accordingly.

One of them you're using momentum.
I just don't like KB snatches for the fact that the KB has to swing around the wrist. DB snatches are better.

 

[Fahcough]

One of them you're using momentum.
I just don't like KB snatches for the fact that the KB has to swing around the wrist. DB snatches are better.

Can agree with that. DB snatches feel different. Comparing deadstop on both, not a swinging snatch.

 

[wolffanghameha]

Zone 2 burns more fat for energy compared to glycogen, but high intensity actually decreases abdominal fat more - just not by using it for energy. Not really known why, but this article has some theories https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8290478/

 

[maximus__]

Snatches seem so much more energy draining and dynamic. Swings are too ... rhythmic. Can move half body weight in repetition over and over. Snatches you have to focus each one and the horsepower drops accordingly.

Snatches 100% make more sense for this type of training, but they are harder technically so they default to swings like most of the programming.

ONly bonus is 1 handed vs 2 handed with kettlebells and longer rest times if you use swings I guess.

 

[maximus__]

One of them you're using momentum.
I just don't like KB snatches for the fact that the KB has to swing around the wrist. DB snatches are better.

I actually love dumbell snatches compared to kettlebell snatches. It actually feels like the proper snatch movement needs to be used.

 

[vision1]

I actually love dumbell snatches compared to kettlebell snatches. It actually feels like the proper snatch movement needs to be used.

Especially if you have a dumbbell with a rotating handle.

 

[maximus__]

Especially if you have a dumbbell with a rotating handle.

I actually prefer a fixed one. It feels more like a power movement just done without the complexities of having to learn the snatch.
Like the good old infinite intensity Ross training programs back in the day.