Another Penn thread: Who has better boxing, him or McGregor?

[deviake]

Or do what he did in the first and start of the 2 round. Nate only was able to connect his shots when Conor was tired and frustrated.

Maybe, but they were almost even the first round in strikes, and Nate was slipping, rolling with, or blocking many of Conor's shots the second round, and that was with barely any preparation and not being in fight shape. A big part of Conor getting tired and frustrated was because he couldn't land very many clean shots and he was getting hit with jabs, check hooks, and body shots. It wasn't just that he blew his wad, Nate also wore him down.

Nate will also fight differently with a proper amount of time to train and with peak conditioning. I hate that this second fight is happening but it will be interesting for as long as it lasts.

 

[Drunk Bum]

sherdog logic at its finest lol

tell me again how my AV is even slightly relevant to the topic, or what about my post is incorrect?

The fact you have Conor in your av is obviously gonna result in your bias tipped over in favor of Conor.

If I asked you how would Conor do against Rockhold, you'd probably choose Rockhold just to try save face but deep down you think Conor wins.

 

[zerofux]

Din Thomas, Caol Uno, Sean Sherk, which were all legit wins. Not to mention all the people he busted up on the feet before submitting them, because Penn can take people down and submit them.

The question was about boxing.

He blitzed Caol Uno. Sean Sherk and Din Thomas, he hit with knees. BJ was dangerous everywhere, a true mixed martial artist, but when it comes to boxing, you can't compare him to Conor. He doesn't hold a candle to him.

Conor's finished like 17 people with his boxing alone. BJ finished just one 38 year old man who's chin was shot.

 

[BigGing]

Boxing?? Penn by a country mile

 

[PabloBassquez]

The fireball kid

BJ boxed his head in

 

[deviake]

The question was about boxing.

He blitzed Caol Uno. Sean Sherk and Din Thomas, he hit with knees. BJ was dangerous everywhere, a true mixed martial artist, but when it comes to boxing, you can't compare him to Conor. He doesn't hold a candle to him.

Conor's finished like 17 people with his boxing alone. BJ finished just one 38 year old man who's chin was shot.

The notables among those 17 being Jose Aldo who charged straight at him throwing looping shots and Dustin Poirer.
There is much more to boxing than power.

And again, BJ hurt many people on the feet before submitting them. Conor has a lot more KO's than Nate too, but Nate is still the better boxer. It's not a bad thing that they can end a fight in more than one way.

 

[zerofux]

Or do what he did in the first and start of the 2 round. Nate only was able to connect his shots when Conor was tired and frustrated.

You're also ignoring the fact that Nate ate every one of Conor's hardest punches and it didn't phase him. The first clean shot he landed on Conor wobbled him. If Conor wants to win that fight, he better get on his bike, run like Condit, and try to steal 3 rounds. Trying to outbox the guy who trains with Andre Ward isn't going to work.

 

[CJohnny]

Maybe, but they were almost even the first round in strikes, and Nate was slipping, rolling with, or blocking many of Conor's shots the second round, and that was with barely any preparation and not being in fight shape. A big part of Conor getting tired and frustrated was because he couldn't land very many clean shots and he was getting hit with jabs, check hooks, and body shots. It wasn't just that he blew his wad, Nate also wore him down.

Nate will also fight differently with a proper amount of time to train and with peak conditioning. I hate that this second fight is happening but it will be interesting for as long as it lasts.

Don't think anything will be different in the rematch from him, besides maybe Nate defense will be better this time. Nate is someone who doesn't need a camp like some others fighters. He will always have a better cardio than his opponent. Also, it's not like Conor was getting ready for someone like him either, despite being in shape.

I think big part of Conor being like he was because Nate was able to took everything he had, I mean, in the start of the second round Nate took that counter that finished Aldo, the same shot that also hurt everybody else and is Conor best shot. Nate also took a uppercut, even it wasn't that clean, it would put every FW out, and most of LW fighters as well. No surprise here, Conor really thought no one could take his shots. Also getting hit and not finding his distance.

I think Conor will not change everything in the rematch, but he will come with a better plan. This time he will pick his shots better and will not put everything into it. Still think he will be tired at some point, and that's when those brothers start beating the shit ouf of they opponent.

 

[zerofux]

The notables among those 17 being Jose Aldo who charged straight at him throwing looping shots and Dustin Poirer.
There is also much more to boxing than power.

And again, BJ hurt many people on the feet before submitting them. Conor has a lot more KO's than Nate too, but Nate is still the better boxer. It's not a bad thing that they can end a fight in more than one way.

Look, I'm a die hard BJ fan, but I don't even think there's an argument here. BJ had good boxing in an era when there was NO good boxing in MMA. Motivated Penn, in his prime, was outboxed by Frankie Edgar.

 

[CJohnny]

You're also ignoring the fact that Nate ate every one of Conor's hardest punches and it didn't phase him. The first clean shot he landed on Conor wobbled him. If Conor wants to win that fight, he better get on his bike, run like Condit, and try to steal 3 rounds. Trying to outbox the guy who trains with Andre Ward isn't going to work.

But I think Nate will win. I was just saying that his boxing isn't that better than BJ and Conor. It might be better, but both Nick and Nate most of the time is only able to beat they opponents when they are tired. Example is Conor, Daley. Even BJ was doing good in the first.

 

[Spookv]

Look, I'm a die hard BJ fan, but I don't even think there's an argument here. BJ had good boxing in an era when there was NO good boxing in MMA. Motivated Penn, in his prime, was outboxed by Frankie Edgar.

Edgars boxing is amazing, he understands how to utilize his footwork. Bj Penn is a good boxer with a textbook stance, while Edgar was using a switch hitter type of style to keep Penn guessing added in the speed Edgar has Penn stuck as no one ever fought that way.

 

[zerofux]

But I think Nate will win. I was just saying that his boxing isn't that better than BJ and Conor. It might be better, but both Nick and Nate most of the time is only able to beat they opponents when they are tired. Example is Conor, Daley. Even BJ was doing good in the first.

These guys are all professional fighters. They wouldn't get tired if they're opponent was pushing the pace and landing shots. Look how "tired" Mendes, Siver, and Brandau looked when Conor put them away. That wasn't because of their gas tanks. It was a combination of head games, body work, and landing hard shots. That's what getting outboxed looks like.

The only thing I saw in Conor/Nate fight was that Conor had a clear speed advantage. He can score and get out of harms way, but I don't know if he's mentally strong enough to check his ego and stick to that strategy for 5 rounds.

 

[MayhemMonkey]

The fact you have Conor in your av is obviously gonna result in your bias tipped over in favor of Conor.

If I asked you how would Conor do against Rockhold, you'd probably choose Rockhold just to try save face but deep down you think Conor wins.

Id pick Rockhold because its the obvious answer..... not to save face. Ive been on this site long before I even knew who Conor was, dont make assumptions about me please?

 

[zerofux]

Edgars boxing is amazing, he understands how to utilize his footwork. Bj Penn is a good boxer with a textbook stance, while Edgar was using a switch hitter type of style to keep Penn guessing added in the speed Edgar has Penn stuck as no one ever fought that way.

Do you think Edgar is going to outbox McGregor?

 

[Spookv]

Do you think Edgar is going to outbox McGregor?

I think he might have some success as he will be the faster fighter but reach and fighting a southpaw will be the biggest factor. If it stays standing I think Conor catches Edgar, too bad Edgar ain't stupid as he will most likely get on the inside, inside trip or a double. Edgar got brains.

 

[zerofux]

I think he might have some success as he will be the faster fighter but reach and fighting a southpaw will be the biggest factor. If it stays standing I think Conor catches Edgar, too bad Edgar ain't stupid as he will most likely get on the inside, inside trip or a double. Edgar got brains.

Yeah, I think Edgar can and will mix in the takedowns well enough to keep Conor guessing while they're on the feet. When that happens, you get weird things happening in the stand up, like Chael dropping Anderson Silva with a punch. I can't see Conor getting in Frankie's head either.

That said, nobody would suggest that Frankie try outbox Conor, and that's kind of my point. BJ and Edgar are mixed martial artists with good boxing. For all Conor's flashy techniques, at the end of the day, basically all he has is his boxing.

 

[CJohnny]

These guys are all professional fighters. They wouldn't get tired if they're opponent was pushing the pace and landing shots. Look how "tired" Mendes, Siver, and Brandau looked when Conor put them away. That wasn't because of their gas tanks. It was a combination of head games, body work, and landing hard shots. That's what getting outboxed looks like.

The only thing I saw in Conor/Nate fight was that Conor had a clear speed advantage. He can score and get out of harms way, but I don't know if he's mentally strong enough to check his ego and stick to that strategy for 5 rounds.

Daley almost finished him. It's more of a combination of chin, cardio and boxing. When they fight someone who can match that, they lose. They sure work very well to get they opponents tired though

 

[deviake]

Don't think anything will be different in the rematch from him, besides maybe Nate defense will be better this time. Nate is someone who doesn't need a camp like some others fighters. He will always have a better cardio than his opponent. Also, it's not like Conor was getting ready for someone like him either, despite being in shape.

I think big part of Conor being like he was because Nate was able to took everything he had, I mean, in the start of the second round Nate took that counter that finished Aldo, the same shot that also hurt everybody else and is Conor best shot. Nate also took a uppercut, even it wasn't that clean, it would put every FW out, and most of LW fighters as well. No surprise here, Conor really thought no one could take his shots. Also getting hit and not finding his distance.

I think Conor will not change everything in the rematch, but he will come with a better plan. This time he will pick his shots better and will not put everything into it. Still think he will be tired at some point, and that's when those brothers start beating the shit ouf of they opponent.

He may not get terribly out of shape, but it is absolutely better for him to have a full training camp for a fight.

Conor, while not preparing specifically for Nate, was in shape and had several weeks of sparring and drilling. He was far more prepared than Diaz.

Nate took some hard shots, but he also rolled with or blocked many of them, and a lot were glancing blows. How hard he was hit with uppercuts and whether they'd put most other LW's out is conjecture.

I imagine Conor will try to stick and move more in the rematch, but it's going to be interesting to see how he deals with Nate when he's in fight shape fully prepared, because he's going to bring a lot of pressure right from the start.

Look, I'm a die hard BJ fan, but I don't even think there's an argument here. BJ had good boxing in an era when there was NO good boxing in MMA. Motivated Penn, in his prime, was outboxed by Frankie Edgar.

We might have to agree to disagree. You have a point about there not being a lot of great boxing in MMA during Penn's prime, but I don't recall McGregor fighting any good boxers aside from Nate, and he's eaten some big shots, but from smaller people. I remember Penn slipping and rolling with a lot of shots and seldom getting hit clean on the feet unless he was gassed.

Penn outboxed Edgar in the first fight, as I recall. Frankie utilized a lot of movement, kicks, takedowns, and he's faster and has better cardio than Conor. He might out-strike Conor, it's hard to say until they fight.

 

[DatSamboKid]

BJ Penn lol....

 

[zerofux]

He may not get terribly out of shape, but it is absolutely better for him to have a full training camp for a fight.

Conor, while not preparing specifically for Nate, was in shape and had several weeks with of sparring and drilling. He was far more prepared than Diaz.

Nate took some hard shots, but he also rolled with or blocked many of them, and a lot were glancing blows. How hard he was hit with uppercuts and whether they'd put most other LW's out is conjecture.

I imagine Conor will try to stick and move more in the rematch, but it's going to be interesting to see how he deals with Nate when he's in fight shape fully prepared, because he's going to bring a lot of pressure right from the start.



We might have to agree to disagree. You have a point about there not being a lot of great boxing in MMA during Penn's prime, but I don't recall McGregor fighting any good boxers aside from Nate, and he's eaten some big shots, but from smaller people. I remember Penn slipping and rolling with a lot of shots and seldom getting hit clean on the feet unless he was gassed.

Penn outboxed Edgar in the first fight, as I recall. Frankie utilized a lot of movement, kicks, takedowns, and he's faster and has better cardio than Conor. He might out-strike Conor, it's hard to say until they fight.

I can definitely agree that Penn had better head movement/defensive boxing. Conor doesn't seem too worried about getting hit.

I thought Penn won the first fight with Edgar too.

I guess one of things that always bothered me about Penn and boxing was that once he developed a reputation for having great boxing, he started relying on it more and more, and that's when he became predictable and beatable. When he was throwing flying knees, taking people down, and submitting them, he was unstoppable. I don't know. It was always aggravating to me. Even now, if he comes back trying to pick people apart with his boxing, I don't see it going well. He needs to come with everything.