Another No-Gi convert

[USAMMAFAN]

my 2 cents

if you do mma, train no-gi with strikes

if you do submission wrestling train no-gi with no strikes

if you do gi grappling train in a gi

simple as that really

imo gi-grapplers mantra that the gi makes your no-gi game is misleading, any grappling with make your grappling better, gi or no gi, there is no substitute like time on the mat

if you train no-gi for 5 years and then put a gi on, your not going to just suddenly suck, your base, sense of timing, etc are all still there, you will just have to do some adjusting to the gi

like wise if you train in a gi for 5 years you are not gonna suck if you take it off

i think that all these gi grapplers that extoll the virtues of gi training for no-gi, seem to forget that they spent years and years on the mat, which is the most likely reason for their success, not a piece of clothing

its just a marketing ploy by those brought up in a gi- based art to cash in on the current popularity of mma

for self defense i beleive both no gi and gi should be trained

there is a reason you dont see rugby players training in amercian football helmuts and shoulder pads, its not sport specific, and for mma and submission wrestling, there really is no point to roll in a gi, its not necessary, anymore then a boxer shadowboxing with hand weights

 

[wellrounded]

I am definetly biased in favour of no-gi (long wrestling back ground). That being said however, I have rolled with Marcello Garcia, and I respect his opinion. I wish I had the time to put the gi on and train, but I have to be a little bit more selective about what I'm going to use in my training. Idealy I'd train 8 hours a day 7 days a week, but thats not realistic. Hard and easy don't really enter into the equation. Its more like directly useful vs. potentially useful.

Do you have any wrestling accomplishements or did you just do it for fun?

 

[wellrounded]

my 2 cents

if you do mma, train no-gi with strikes

if you do submission wrestling train no-gi with no strikes

if you do gi grappling train in a gi

simple as that really

imo gi-grapplers mantra that the gi makes your no-gi game is misleading, any grappling with make your grappling better, gi or no gi, there is no substitute like time on the mat

if you train no-gi for 5 years and then put a gi on, your not going to just suddenly suck, your base, sense of timing, etc are all still there, you will just have to do some adjusting to the gi

like wise if you train in a gi for 5 years you are not gonna suck if you take it off

i think that all these gi grapplers that extoll the virtues of gi training for no-gi, seem to forget that they spent years and years on the mat, which is the most likely reason for their success, not a piece of clothing

its just a marketing ploy by those brought up in a gi- based art to cash in on the current popularity of mma

for self defense i beleive both no gi and gi should be trained

there is a reason you dont see rugby players training in amercian football helmuts and shoulder pads, its not sport specific, and for mma and submission wrestling, there really is no point to roll in a gi, its not necessary, anymore then a boxer shadowboxing with hand weights

yeah but for I'm really surprised that I like No-Gi better. I mean I've been competing nationally and internationally in judo for quite a while...

 

[Kimuralex]

my 2 cents

if you do mma, train no-gi with strikes

if you do submission wrestling train no-gi with no strikes

if you do gi grappling train in a gi

simple as that really

imo gi-grapplers mantra that the gi makes your no-gi game is misleading, any grappling with make your grappling better, gi or no gi, there is no substitute like time on the mat
if you train no-gi for 5 years and then put a gi on, your not going to just suddenly suck, your base, sense of timing, etc are all still there, you will just have to do some adjusting to the gi

like wise if you train in a gi for 5 years you are not gonna suck if you take it off

i think that all these gi grapplers that extoll the virtues of gi training for no-gi, seem to forget that they spent years and years on the mat, which is the most likely reason for their success, not a piece of clothing

its just a marketing ploy by those brought up in a gi- based art to cash in on the current popularity of mma

for self defense i beleive both no gi and gi should be trained

there is a reason you dont see rugby players training in amercian football helmuts and shoulder pads, its not sport specific, and for mma and submission wrestling, there really is no point to roll in a gi, its not necessary, anymore then a boxer shadowboxing with hand weights

tell that to marcelo garcia, who specifically said he trains in gi to get more technical for no gi

 

[Rory McDonell]

Do you have any wrestling accomplishements or did you just do it for fun?

a few accomplisments. Jr. National Greco Champ, provincial champ, second at copa del sparta in puerto rico. I moved on to MMA because I'm not at the level where I'll ever be able to win regularly internationally, and I finished university. So i moved on to fighting, which I love!

 

[wellrounded]

a few accomplisments. Jr. National Greco Champ, provincial champ, second at copa del sparta in puerto rico. I moved on to MMA because I'm not at the level where I'll ever be able to win regularly internationally, and I finished university. So i moved on to fighting, which I love!

Great job.

Which do you think is more suitable for mma, Greco of Freestyle wrestling?
I know Greco has a lot of great techniques in the clinch and for the under hooks in the stand up.

 

[Rory McDonell]

Great job.

Which do you think is more suitable for mma, Greco of Freestyle wrestling?
I know Greco has a lot of great techniques in the clinch and for the under hooks in the stand up.

I think the best would be a guy with a greco or freestlye base, that has crosstrained extensivley. Greco is great as you said for the clinch and underhooks, but it totally ignores any techniques which incorporate the legs. Inluding leg sweeps and shots. I think that is a critical aspect to the takedown game, so a blend of experience between the two would be ideal.

What club do you train at in Ottawa?

 

[wellrounded]

Ottawa Academy of Martial Arts
BJJ/ My Thai club

http://www.oama.ca

 

[USAMMAFAN]

tell that to marcelo garcia, who specifically said he trains in gi to get more technical for no gi

and does he not come from a gi - based art as opposed to say a no gi art like wrestling? think he might just be a little bit biased, no?

garcia is good because he is a phenonm with alot of time on the mat, not because of a piece of clothing

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

What the hell are you talking about? I don't know you. I've never said you suck. I have no idea who you even are or what you do. Am I somewhat biased concerning the usefulness of wrestling? Of course I am. I never claimed to be otherwise. There are plenty of biased jj practitioners here as well though, and I don't see why you need to make this debate so personal. I roll gi and no gi. I like them both. I just find it easier to teach an explosive athlete to slow down then to teach a passive one how to execute techniques explosively. One takes willpower and an understanding of the pace needed. The other takes retraining the way a person's body functions, which takes much longer to achieve. Get a life and stop calling people names. If you wanted to make it personal, just PM me - I would be happy to debate with you. Stop acting like a childish dick because you have a keyboard in front of you and can't be held accountable for your words. I had probably accomplished more in competitive grappling before my 18th birthday than you ever will, and now I both instruct athletes and continue to train as one. I deserve more respect than you're giving me. I'm sure if we were talking in person, you wouldn't be so quick to rush to judgment and insult me.

I'm sorry, I had remembered you and hayliks said I sucked. In truth, hayliks and kushjunkie said I sucked. I was very upset and my memory was faulty. I apologize.

But one day, I will accomplish more than you think I will.

 

[ЦАР]

yes it is. gi forces you to use good technique to pass guard and escape from bad positions. its much easier to take a gi off and be good at no gi then the other way around. GI is just the shit.

I'm new to any kind of non-wrestling grappling, but my instructor advised me to do both, even if I start no-gi. I've only wrestled, so the idea of using clothing as part of the sport is absolutely foreign to me.

 

[ЦАР]

I think the best would be a guy with a greco or freestlye base, that has crosstrained extensivley. Greco is great as you said for the clinch and underhooks, but it totally ignores any techniques which incorporate the legs. Inluding leg sweeps and shots. I think that is a critical aspect to the takedown game, so a blend of experience between the two would be ideal.

What club do you train at in Ottawa?

Freestyle is better insofar as upper body techniques are allowed alongside most greco throws--greco is great, but all the greco greats have a folk/freestyle base...and to begin greco alone without leg attacks is really limiting to your overall neutral skills. RMD basically says all that above.

 

[Kyuktooki]

Or.. if you are not in it specifically to compete you can just do what you find the most fun (although I would go with trying to find the best teacher, and if that teacher teaches gi even though I am a fan of no-gi so be it). To be honest, the most important reasons I study BJJ and Muay Thai is because I both enjoy it (as an MMA fan first and practitioner second) and its a great way to stay in shape while learning something at the same time.

 

[Zankou]

and does he not come from a gi - based art as opposed to say a no gi art like wrestling? think he might just be a little bit biased, no?

garcia is good because he is a phenonm with alot of time on the mat, not because of a piece of clothing

Between you and Garcia, I'm gonna take Garcia's word on this one. The watchword of all realistic martial arts should be proven success, not theoretical argument. No-gi only partisans have a lot of theory, but the gi/no-gi split partisans have the top success.

As I say, it's a question of evidence. If no-gi only guys start dominating the no-gi competitions, then I'm definitely willing to change my mind. If they don't, then there is no good empirical (as opposed to theoretical) reason to believe that Garcia and friends are wrong. Either way, the theory should explain reality, reality should not have to accord with the theory.

As with most things, if you want to learn how to do it, the most rational course is to ask the advice of those who have actually done it.

 

[USAMMAFAN]

Between you and Garcia, I'm gonna take Garcia's word on this one. The watchword of all realistic martial arts should be proven success, not theoretical argument. No-gi only partisans have a lot of theory, but the gi/no-gi split partisans have the top success.

As I say, it's a question of evidence. If no-gi only guys start dominating the no-gi competitions, then I'm definitely willing to change my mind. If they don't, then there is no good empirical (as opposed to theoretical) reason to believe that Garcia and friends are wrong. Either way, the theory should explain reality, reality should not have to accord with the theory.

As with most things, if you want to learn how to do it, the most rational course is to ask the advice of those who have actually done it.

right, but correlation does not implyl causality

i could have made the argument 10 years ago that in order to be a heavy weight boxing champ one had to have black skin as every heavy weight boxing champ in recent history had black skin, from joe louis to klitchko, ruiz and valuev all of them had black skin

nothing could be further from the truth, though, black skin is pretty irrelevant compared things like chin, heart, conditioning, skill, etc, as recent domination of the heavies by eastern europeans has shown

also there have been adcc champs that were not gi-based grapplers, monson and kerr come to mind

these gi guys dominate imo because submissions are obviously a huge part of adcc, most no gi grapplers come from a wrestling background which has no submissions

i dont think gi grappling is bad, any grappling is good and will improve your skill, but if gi grappling is superior to no-gi even in a no-gi envrironment, why not add a winter coat and pair of running sneakers? if some is clothing is better, why not add more for extra effect?

what would happen if olympic level wrestlers stopped caring about the olympics and concentrated on things like the adcc, i think the results would start to change drastically

kerr and monson dominated and they were not even olympic caliber wrestlers

i dont dislike gi grappling and like is said any grappling will improve both your gi and no gi games, but i just dont beleive that grappling in a gi will improve your no gi game better then just grappling no gi

also remember garcia is a bjj guy and biased toward gi grappling for various reasons, i mean how many gi companies sponcer him

i agree with eddie bravo, i guess

 

[Q mystic]

Now I've been doing judo for 4 years, competed and won in international tournaments, and I've been doing BJJ for a month, but recently I tried a No-Gi class, and just wow. I felt like a kid in a candy store. I'm loving it.

Strangely I found it also easier than GI and I was able to pass the guard and do various techniques easier.

Sure, passing gaurd seems easier but try throwing with morote seoinage.:icon_lol:

I remember starting wrestling after years of judo and I loved it right off the bat. I think it was just the different game at a point where judo seemed to be getting monotonous. I loved what to me was the newness of controlling their core and applying my weight when on the ground. And the sweet turnovers from the wrestling game.

 

[Q mystic]

my 2 cents

if you do mma, train no-gi with strikes

if you do submission wrestling train no-gi with no strikes

if you do gi grappling train in a gi

simple as that really

imo gi-grapplers mantra that the gi makes your no-gi game is misleading, any grappling with make your grappling better, gi or no gi, there is no substitute like time on the mat

if you train no-gi for 5 years and then put a gi on, your not going to just suddenly suck, your base, sense of timing, etc are all still there, you will just have to do some adjusting to the gi

like wise if you train in a gi for 5 years you are not gonna suck if you take it off

i think that all these gi grapplers that extoll the virtues of gi training for no-gi, seem to forget that they spent years and years on the mat, which is the most likely reason for their success, not a piece of clothing

its just a marketing ploy by those brought up in a gi- based art to cash in on the current popularity of mma

for self defense i beleive both no gi and gi should be trained

there is a reason you dont see rugby players training in amercian football helmuts and shoulder pads, its not sport specific, and for mma and submission wrestling, there really is no point to roll in a gi, its not necessary, anymore then a boxer shadowboxing with hand weights

If I were to coach a young person, I would want him to get proficient at gi 1st and then go towards nogi with occasional gi training in there.

Without getting too specific, I just think it gives you a wider concept of a grappling game, and I think a wider concept of grappling will give a person a higher potential in the long run. Nogi game is kinda forced to be a very direct, efficient game where it seems more options are available to gi training and think of it as a tool that allows you to experience 'more' than you can without one.

Same with scoring. I would have a young guy training to fight all different games of scoring(wrestling, judo, bjj)

 

[wellrounded]

Sure, passing gaurd seems easier but try throwing with morote seoinage.:icon_lol:

I remember starting wrestling after years of judo and I loved it right off the bat. I think it was just the different game at a point where judo seemed to be getting monotonous. I loved what to me was the newness of controlling their core and applying my weight when on the ground. And the sweet turnovers from the wrestling game.

man should you see my modified ippon seoi nage

Damn uchimatas and harai goshi don't work so well, you can pull off osoto garis once in a while, and o goshi are the easiest and best throw (though strangely I never used it in judo). I also had to change my stance.