Analysis of Silva's technical decline

[deviake]

Bisping never relied on speed or reflexes or any athletic trait for that matter.

That makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. He's a high level athlete and a striker for that matter.

Mike tyson was past his best (at least technically) at 30. And there is a big difference between 37 and 40 after 35 each year is a huge difference. Anderson only 3 years ago was destroying Okami.

The Yushin Okami fight was almost five years ago, and no, you don't know that less than a three year age gap makes that big of difference, especially considering Bisping has taken much more damage in his career.

Some fighters are effective in their 40 while Cain isn't even 35 but seems to be done physically.

Based on what? Because he lost to Werdum?

40 year old Hunt would probably wreck a 40 year old Cain but not sure any evrsion of Hunt beats a 30 year old Cain.

Pointless, completely unverifiable hypothetical, and two entirely different people anyway.

 

[Heelhook71]

You don't think a 41 year old fighter with 40+ fights has declined? Hahaha... Really?

I'm sure Fedor was past his prime when he lost though, amirite?

Thought he was 40? Are Sherdog fans adding on years as a coping mechanism for his loss?

Anderson clearly hadn't slowed down that much. People have been saying for years Anderson's striking has been overrated. Yes he's always had flash, but the substance and fundamentals aren't all there. He can make you look stupid if you play into his game, and for years sloppy strikers did.

Say what you want about Michael, but he has always been a very technically efficient, good striker offensively. A lot of people on here are clueless about the sport, equate a good striker with just knock out power and as a result have a warped idea of who good strikers are and aren't. Bispings UFC stats showed he's been one of the most efficient accurate strikers in the game. He's also a lot quicker than a lot of the previous fighters Anderson fought. Not the sloppy brawler type Anderson made his name off highlighting . There was always a very good chance Bidping could out work the Anderson of on any era. He just matches up well with him.

I'm glad I bet on the count and won some money$$$

 

[One MMA Fan]

And the Cote fight, and the Leites fight. Bisping is 37, only three years younger than Anderson, and Bisping has been in plenty of tough fights. The age excuse doesn't work here.

I don't agree about the age difference.

Bisping was 37 without a day and Silva was 41 without a month and a bit.

Years after age 35 are totally different for athletes (like a simplified way of looking at it, imagine there worth double or triple after that cut off point) and years after 40 again have again a way deeper impact then the previous threshold.

There are sports that the thresholds to the end of your career are less like 30/35 instead of what we have in fighting 35/40.

In fighting it seems that HWs are the ones that age the best but even for them if you are over 40 all bets are off.

Those 4 years difference are in a very important range.. its not like you say one is 24 and the other 28 or one is 30 and the other 34 nope you are talking about Bisping that is starting his 'end of road' now (2 years in) has like 3 years max left in him at a top level and Silva that is 1 year in already in his what we can call "borrowed time" already.

Also note that Bisping always had great cardio / fitness and took care of himself in all aspects that is one of his strongest points, you can consider him a very well maintained 37 year old athlete. And his main straights don't resolve around speed / quickness / reflex like in the case of Silva and with all that said you can still see him slow down, he was a stronger, faster fighter a couple years ago.

 

[Redhawks100]

Thought he was 40? Are Sherdog fans adding on years as a coping mechanism for his loss?

Anderson clearly hadn't slowed down that much. People have been saying for years Anderson's striking has been overrated. Yes he's always had flash, but the substance and fundamentals aren't all there. He can make you look stupid if you play into his game, and for years sloppy strikers did.

Say what you want about Michael, but he has always been a very technically efficient, good striker offensively. A lot of people on here are clueless about the sport, equate a good striker with just knock out power and as a result have a warped idea of who good strikers are and aren't. Bispings UFC stats showed he's been one of the most efficient accurate strikers in the game. He's also a lot quicker than a lot of the previous fighters Anderson fought. Not the sloppy brawler type Anderson made his name off highlighting . There was always a very good chance Bidping could out work the Anderson of on any era. He just matches up well with him.

I'm glad I bet on the count and won some money$$$

Is 40 supposed to make him young? Hahaha.

No, they haven't. Just a few haters that have been salty since Anderson's legendary reign. The substance and fundamentals aren't there? Hahaha... Dude, stop making a jackass out of yourself. Yes yes, all the fighters that Anderson fought had HORRIBLE striking while everyone else in other weight classes had crispy, technical, and elite striking. We've heard and read it all before.

Bisping is a decent striker but nothing special. Decent hands, decent combinations, and decent footwork. Nothing excellent. A younger Anderson in his prime would've eaten him up.

Basically, you're a dolt for thinking a 40 year old striker with 40+ MMA fights is still close to his prime.

 

[asmodai59]

Whilst I agree that Anderson has shown some decline, I still think he is easily top 10 and still has a few more years of being elite level. I also had him winning the fight 3 rounds to 2 but it was a close fight for sure.

Anderson has not been very active these past few years and ring rust is very real and his recovery from that horrific injury is also going to be a factor. It would be good to see Anderson finding his feet again with a few fights against lower ranked opponents. At almost 41 years of age, a title run would be unwise but there are still some interesting match ups to be had at 185.

 

[deviake]

An 'oh shit' face? Really? That's your evidence? Poor.

He barely saved himself from landing on his ass. That's Chael Sonnen, striking extraordinaire hurting him.

Considering he's been fighting longer, he's older, and he's known to have sparred with heavyweights...

Show me proof that Anderson has taken more damage than Bisping. Bisping has also been known to have sparred with heavyweights...

41=\=37. Bisping is still at an older age but has had much more success than Silva and has less mileage in terms of his career.

I was mistaken, Bisping just turned 38, Anderson turns 41 in two months. There is less than a three year gap. You are fucking reeeeaaaching with this age bullshit, and you know it, that's why you're so pissy, 'cause you had a narrative and I shattered it, but you won't accept it.

You just admitted that you don't remember the Diaz quote so why keep bringing it up?

Are you a fucking politician? I don't remember it verbatim, I didn't say that I don't remember it. If I didn't remember it, I couldn't have cited anything about it.

He said his shot selection was bad, like I said in my previous post. Anderson was very good at leading although his counter ability was greater, but he got old. Fighters deteriorate.

Yes, yes they do. Like a 38 year fighter who has been in wars and has been rocked and KO'd multiple times in his career...

No shit they adapt

That must have been painful to admit, albeit you would look insanely delusional if you didn't, so I guess you didn't really have a choice.

but their careers are on different paths.

Indeed! Bisping has been through the ringer multiple times, even recently.

Like I said, not every fighter is the same.

Duh? That's not an argument.

Although Bisping is old, he still has more in the tank than Anderson and that was known even before the fight.

By who? And how do you know that?

That's fine. You still don't know much.

You don't know what I know. You can't just say that I don't know much because I disagree with your opinion, that's fucking stupid and childish and I'm calling you on your bullshit. I've possibly been watching MMA longer than you, I've been on this site much longer than you, and I'm probably older than you. That's why you don't make snide comments to someone that you know nothing about.

 

[One MMA Fan]

Fighters age differently and Bisping never relied on speed or reflexes or any athletic trait for that matter. Mike tyson was past his best (at least technically) at 30. And there is a big difference between 37 and 40 after 35 each year is a huge difference. Anderson only 3 years ago was destroying Okami.

Some fighters are effective in their 40 while Cain isn't even 35 but seems to be done physically.

40 year old Hunt would probably wreck a 40 year old Cain but not sure any evrsion of Hunt beats a 30 year old Cain.

Yep I agree overall, I would add that it also depends on a case by case situation and you need to take a look at the injuries (shit happens) and the overall wear and tear they have (I would imagine that Cain's knees seen some shit in all the years he was wrestling).

Lastly note that the HW division plays by 'different' rules when comparing older fighters from HW to the ones under this division.

 

[Redhawks100]

He barely saved himself from landing on his ass. That's Chael Sonnen, striking extraordinaire hurting him.



Show me proof that Anderson has taken more damage than Bisping. Bisping has also been known to have sparred with heavyweights...



I was mistaken, Bisping just turned 38, Anderson turns 41 in two months. There is less than a three year gap. You are fucking reeeeaaaching with this age bullshit, and you know it, that's why you're so pissy, 'cause you had a narrative and I shattered it, but you won't accept it.



Are you a fucking politician? I don't remember it verbatim, I didn't say that I don't remember it. If I didn't remember it, I couldn't have cited anything about it.



Yes, yes they do. Like a 38 year fighter who has been in wars and has been rocked and brutally KO'd multiple times in his career...



That must have been painful to admit, albeit you would look insanely delusional if you didn't, so I guess you didn't really have a choice. That is a 180 from what you said before.



Indeed! Bisping has been through the ringer multiple times, even recently.




Duh? That's not an argument.



By who? And how do you know that?



You don't know what I know. You can't just say that I don't know much because I disagree with your opinion, that's fucking stupid and childish and I'm calling you on your bullshit. I've possibly been watching MMA longer than you, I've been on this site much longer than you, and I'm probably older than you. That's why you don't make snide comments to someone that you know nothing about.

Silva barely touching the canvas with his hand is your proof? Just stop.

I didn't know Bisping sparred with guys like Junior dos Santos.

You've got to be fucking kidding me hahaha Anderson is nearly 41 with MORE fights than Bisping and had his fucking leg snapped.

Then don't bring it up you fucking dunce.

Or a 40 year old fighter (nearly 41) that has been knocked out cold and snapped his leg. But that's nothing, especially for a fighter like Anderson that heavily relies on reflex/agility.

So that means he should be more deteriorated than Anderson? Where is your fucking argument, kid? This is just sad.

The fact that Bisping's last two wins before Silva were against top 10 fighters and Anderson looked like garbage against Nick Diaz.

You're obviously just another sad Anderson hater that suffered through his legendary run. Now that he's done and past it, you are reveling in it. That's all this is.

 

[King.]

I think Bisping has always been very technical and level-headed and fought the perfect fight tonight. On the other hand, if he were to have faced Anderson at his peak, I think he would have been smashed.

Anderson hasn't slowed down THAT much, but just enough to get caught where he previously wouldn't have. He also can't shrug off punches like he used to. Bonnar is no world beater of course, but Anderson let him hit him flush and he shrugged it off like it was nothing. Technically I hold Bisping in higher regard than Bonnar, but punching power I have them about equal. Sometimes all it takes is "losing a step" to render certain fighting styles far less effective.

Re. the age thing, you can't just say there's "only" a three year difference and pretend it doesn't make a difference. I won't reiterate what others have said but fighters age at different rates and age affects different styles...well, differently. Also let's not pretend that two HARD losses to Weidman and severe inactivity afterwards won't affect a fighter, especially one at the tail end of his career (even Anderson).
Btw, I think Anderson's game requires his reflexes to be spot-on. He already lost some of that in the Bonnar fight in my view.

Bottom-line, Bisping took it to Anderson, was more active and didn't get sucked into his game. Decision could have gone either way, based on damage i'd give it to Anderson, but can see why they gave it to Bisping. If he's honest he knows he did not beat a peak Anderson, but still fought a hell of fucking fight. I was entertained, and then some.

 

[deviake]

I don't agree about the age difference.

Bisping was 37 without a day and Silva was 41 without a month and a bit.

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Anderson-Silva-1356

Anderson Silva isn't quite 41 years old. According to fight finder he will be in April, and Bisping just turned 38. About three years between them.

Years after age 35 are totally different for athletes (like a simplified way of looking at it, imagine there worth double or triple after that cut off point) and years after 40 again have again a way deeper impact then the previous threshold.

Like the other guy pointed out, everyone is different. All we know is that there isn't much of an age gap and Bisping has taken more damage in his career. There is no specific decline at EXACTLY certain ages, life isn't a video game.

There are sports that the thresholds to the end of your career are less like 30/35 instead of what we have in fighting 35/40.

True.

In fighting it seems that HWs are the ones that age the best but even for them if you are over 40 all bets are off.

Those 4 years difference are in a very important range.. its not like you say one is 24 and the other 28 or one is 30 and the other 34 nope you are talking about Bisping that is starting his 'end of road' now (2 years in) has like 3 years max left in him at a top level and Silva that is 1 year in already in his what we can call "borrowed time" already.

We don't know how either of them has aged though, and it's different for everyone. What we do know is that the age gap is slightly less than three years and Bisping has taken more damage in his career. Since we don't know these things exactly, it seems silly to me to use Anderson's age as a reason to why he didn't perform better when Bisping isn't far behind him.

Also note that Bisping always had great cardio / fitness and took care of himself in all aspects that is one of his strongest points, you can consider him a very well maintained 37 year old athlete. And his main straights don't resolve around speed / quickness / reflex like in the case of Silva and with all that said you can still see him slow down, he was a stronger, faster fighter a couple years ago.

He's 38 as of today.

Silva's style definitely needs great reflexes, but Bisping is also a striker, and uses those same attributes. We don't know who is healthier and who has maintained themselves better over the years. The area is too gray I feel to make bold statements about who has declined more and by how much.

 

[PivotPunch]

That makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. He's a high level athlete and a striker for that matter.



The Yushin Okami fight was almost five years ago, and no, you don't know that less than a three year age gap makes that big of difference, especially considering Bisping has taken much more damage in his career.



Based on what? Because he lost to Werdum?



Pointless, completely unverifiable hypothetical, and two entirely different people anyway.

It makes a lot sense not every fighter has the same style and some rely more on athleticism. That's the difference between a Bernard Hopkins and a Roy Jones or Anderson Silva. Roy Jones beat Hopkins when both where in their physical primes and lost when both were past their physical prime.
Fighting is a skill based sport and some rely more on trextbook technique and some on techniques that need more athleticism.

The outcome of a fight won't be the same when to guys fight in certain intervalls even when they are the same age and even if they also took a similar amount of damage in fights.

Again fighters age differently and you don't have to only watch at fights but training. Anderson has sparring clips getting his head snapped back buy some guy at Freddie Roach's gym, he let Bader hit him for fun on TUF (there's a clip) and he sparred guys like big Nog and let them hit him to the chin. Not only did he let guys like hendo hti him in fights but he fights like that in training as well.

He also had his fucking leg snapped in half.

If you think fighters age the same and don#t see the difference in styles between Bisping and Silva then you knock fuck all about fighting. And on top of Anderson letting guys hit him tot he head both in sparring and training, being 3 years older, being MMA's equivalent to Roy Jones and relying on reflexes and speed etc and getting his leg nsapped in halfgenetics also play a role people just age differently.

Just compare Anderson's chin from when Hendo hit him, when he let Jorge Rivera hit him with bombs without even moving, letting Bader hit him with his ahnds down and things like that to getting knocked out by Weidman, egtting dropped by Weidman again right afterwards and getting staggered and knocked down by fucking michael Bisping 2 times in the same fight then you are dumb.

 

[CodCommando]

Only an idiot would compare Bisping's age to another fighter. Bisping has one of the best gastanksin the UFC history. The guy, like Frankie Edgar can fight non stop.

 

[deviake]

Silva barely touching the canvas with his hand is your proof? Just stop.

Watching someone get punched in the face and almost fall on their ass isn't proof that they were stunned? What universe do you operate in? What, did it tickle him?

I didn't know Bisping sparred with guys like Junior dos Santos.

No one said he did, making shit up isn't helping your case nor making you look better. One of his coaches mentioned him "knocking out heavyweights in practice" before, thus I can presume that he has / does spar with heavyweights.

You've got to be fucking kidding me hahaha Anderson is nearly 41 with MORE fights than Bisping and had his fucking leg snapped.

And has had less wars and less concussions in his career than Bisping. Good grief man, this is low.

Then don't bring it up you fucking dunce.

I will bring it up, because I remember it well enough to recite it.

Or a 40 year old fighter (nearly 41) that has been knocked out cold

He wasn't out cold (the usual definition for being out cold being not moving). Bisping was out cold against Henderson.

and snapped his leg. But that's nothing, especially for a fighter like Anderson that heavily relies on reflex/agility.

I've had the exact same leg break as Anderson. I'm sure it's a pain to recover from at his age, but I would guess that it took less mileage of him than brain damage. It wasn't his knee or a joint that was broken which directly affects mobility. I've recovered from the same injury (except with my right leg) so I do have some idea of what I'm talking about.

So that means he should be more deteriorated than Anderson?

Being in wars and concussed multiple times would logically lead one to the conclusion that the odds are higher that the fighter that has taken more damage would have deteriorated more, yes. Does that mean it's necessarily 100% true? No, but it's following the evidence and logic, which is the best we have to go on.

Where is your fucking argument, kid? This is just sad.

Ignoring it doesn't make it go away. How old are you, since apparently at 30 I'm a kid? It seems like a lose lose scenario to me. If you're truthful, you're probably younger, which makes calling me kid kinda stupid. If you're under 40 you're still really not old enough for it to make sense to call me kid. It's just kinda, dumb.

The fact that Bisping's last two wins before Silva were against top 10 fighters and Anderson looked like garbage against Nick Diaz.

Coming off a long layoff and broken leg. Nick Diaz is also not a gimme fight for just about anyone.

You're obviously just another sad Anderson hater that suffered through his legendary run. Now that he's done and past it, you are reveling in it. That's all this is.

No, I like Anderson, and have defended him on these boards many times before you were even a member here, and I picked him to win against Bisping, I just don't like weak excuses being made.

 

[One MMA Fan]

Anderson Silva isn't quite 41 years old. According to fight finder he will be in April, and Bisping just turned 38. About three years between them.

Yea I said above without a day (Bisping) and without a month and a bit (Silva).

He's 38 as of today.

Isn't he 37 now ? I think your math is a bit off, so much closer to 4 years difference. (1.5 months to be precise til 4 years)

Eh let it be, I see you are already in a 'heated' conversation with Redhawks, c'mon guys take it more easy its all in good fun here just talking MMA no need to get upset over it.

 

[King.]

oh btw, also curious if Anderson experienced any adrenaline dump after the confusion and it that played any part...i would've been bummed out as fuck (but it was his own fault to be fair...just keep your fucking head in it until you're certain he's out!). Also, I loved that wing chun / steven seagal shit Anderson pulled! Had me cracking up at first but was actually quite effective.

 

[deviake]

Isn't he 37 now ? I think your math is a bit off, so much closer to 4 years difference. (1.5 months to be precise til 4 years)

According to Fight Finder Bisping turned 38 today, and Anderson turns 41 in April.

Eh let it be, I see you are already in a 'heated' conversation with Redhawks, c'mon guys take it more easy its all in good fun here just talking MMA no need to get upset over it.

I sometimes get heated when people get heated with me, I keep it cordial with those who are respectful. Regardless, I agree with you, and I'll try to ease up.

 

[bennyandthejitz]

Without steroids Anderson is not the same fighter. Even on steroids he gets humiliated by weidman at anytime in his career. Age excuse doesn't work before he was on steroids in late 20s he got subbed by Asians that weren't ufc level

 

[deviake]

It makes a lot sense not every fighter has the same style and some rely more on athleticism. That's the difference between a Bernard Hopkins and a Roy Jones or Anderson Silva. Roy Jones beat Hopkins when both where in their physical primes and lost when both were past their physical prime.
Fighting is a skill based sport and some rely more on trextbook technique and some on techniques that need more athleticism.

The outcome of a fight won't be the same when to guys fight in certain intervalls even when they are the same age and even if they also took a similar amount of damage in fights.

Again fighters age differently and you don't have to only watch at fights but training. Anderson has sparring clips getting his head snapped back buy some guy at Freddie Roach's gym, he let Bader hit him for fun on TUF (there's a clip) and he sparred guys like big Nog and let them hit him to the chin. Not only did he let guys like hendo hti him in fights but he fights like that in training as well.

He also had his fucking leg snapped in half.

If you think fighters age the same and don#t see the difference in styles between Bisping and Silva then you knock fuck all about fighting. And on top of Anderson letting guys hit him tot he head both in sparring and training, being 3 years older, being MMA's equivalent to Roy Jones and relying on reflexes and speed etc and getting his leg nsapped in halfgenetics also play a role people just age differently.

Just compare Anderson's chin from when Hendo hit him, when he let Jorge Rivera hit him with bombs without even moving, letting Bader hit him with his ahnds down and things like that to getting knocked out by Weidman, egtting dropped by Weidman again right afterwards and getting staggered and knocked down by fucking michael Bisping 2 times in the same fight then you are dumb.

Perhaps Anderson has taken more damage, I can't be sure, I can only go by what I've seen in their fighting careers. My logic is this: Anderson is slightly less than three years older than Bisping and has taken less damage in his fighting career. Thus, I don't think it's fair to say that Anderson totally smokes Bisping if he was younger. It just seems like a bunch of excuses to me. I'm sure Anderson is not as crisp as he used to be, but given what I know I don't think that's primarily why Bisping had so much success against him, and I think that takes away from Bisping's accomplishment.

I've defended Anderson plenty over the years, and I've defended him against people saying that his career was only as good as what was because of steroids. If you go through my post history, I've jumped other people for that, and pointed out to them that not only to most pro athletes use, but several of Anderson's opponents were caught using.

I'm not some hater.

 

[Heelhook71]

Is 40 supposed to make him young? Hahaha.

No, they haven't. Just a few haters that have been salty since Anderson's legendary reign. The substance and fundamentals aren't there? Hahaha... Dude, stop making a jackass out of yourself. Yes yes, all the fighters that Anderson fought had HORRIBLE striking while everyone else in other weight classes had crispy, technical, and elite striking. We've heard and read it all before.

Bisping is a decent striker but nothing special. Decent hands, decent combinations, and decent footwork. Nothing excellent. A younger Anderson in his prime would've eaten him up.

Basically, you're a dolt for thinking a 40 year old striker with 40+ MMA fights is still close to his prime.

I never said he was in his prime. I just pointed out that the 3 year age gap, was slowly being increased by posters to help their argument. You're using mental gymnastics to feel like you've come out of a post on sherdog as a winner...Try having a mature unemotionally attached discussion.

Most of Anderson's highlight KO's haven't come against known technically sound strikers.

Anderson absolutely does lack some basic fundamentals. He's stationery when he starts swaying and slipping punches with exaggerated head movement. That's a really bad technique that has got him dropped a few times and KO'd. He also is average pushing the pace and being the aggressor. That's a big hole in Anderson's game. Always has been. When he was down two rounds vs Bisping it wasn't that he didn't push the pace, he's just not really that good or confident in coming forward.

Bisping has fast hands, good combinations, and most of the time good footwork. Along with some of the best accuracy and volume stats in that division's history. That was always going to give a show boater like Anderson problems. Bisping struggles when you put the pressure on him, which Anderson has never consistently managed to do in a fight. Which is why Bisping matches well with him.

Fair enough if you have a hard time swallowing that. I just made a nice profit of my assessment. So I'm good

 

[tasticles]

He use to be strong in the Muay thai clinch, but lately people have been escaping it with ease.. Remember when he clinch Rich Franklin. Rich tried so hard to get out without success and he was the bigger guy!

Rich didn't seem to know his ass from a hole in the ground with muay thai. Training with gurgel was to his detriment. It's not strength but technique people are using to get out. You can get out almost every time just pushing off on the throat or jaw. It's not that complicated. He just sucked. Weidman used the same move.