Analysis of Kostya: A request for Sinistar

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Fire of Youth, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,228
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Australia
    I have recently downloaded a whole pack of Kostya Tszyu fights. I'm a big fan of Kostya and I thoroughly enjoy watching him. However, he does have an unorthodox fighting style. He keeps his arms wide and away from his body. He also doesn't throw high volume punches and chooses to choose his moment to strike cleanly. He sits into a 'saddle stance' with his knees pointed outwards.

    Saying that, Sinister knows more about boxing than I do. I would greatly appreciate a more detailed analysis of Kostya's boxing. I thus request that Sinister (and anyone else sufficently knowledgable) to give a detailed appraisal of Kostya's techniques. What are the strengths and weaknesses of his style? Is he more than a solid right cross? Are my initial assessments of his boxing wrong or uninformed?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  2. LZD

    LZD Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,283
    Likes Received:
    261
    It's "Sinister", not "Sinistar", though of course, he is the bright star of these here forums.

    I love KT as well. Unfortunately, I think Sinisters analysis will....cost ya.
     
  3. NeverMind

    NeverMind Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    3
    yes
     
  4. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,228
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Australia
    Alas, I sorely miss spell check.

    Good pun. :)
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,157
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Location:
    Vegas
    I might not be able to get to this until Monday, but I will.

    I get compared to Kostya a lot...because my hair is similar.
     
  6. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,228
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Australia
    Thankyou. I appreciate your time and effort.

    p.s. you must have cool hair
     
  7. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,157
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Location:
    Vegas
    Braid from the upper part of the back of my head, the rest short. I dunno, some people like it.
     
  8. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,157
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Location:
    Vegas
    Okay, Kostya Tszyu:

    Kostya was one of the very very good examples of just how much further ahead of us the Eastern Bloc were (and are), particularly when it came to developing things like posture and balance in their athletes. A lot of this development was shared between the Communist Countries, Cuba and the Eastern Bloc specifically. If you look at the HBO 24/7 series where Pedro Diaz trains Miguel Cotto, you'll see some exercises that are relatively uncommon for many American and Western European boxers to be doing. Kostya was making this kind of stuff a big deal way before:



    And here's a cheesy HL video where you can see some more of what would be considered unconventional exercises:



    When Western trainers would see Kostya in the Gym, they'd often remark on how he never seemed to get tired. This wasn't because he was superhuman per se, but he was already very physically conditioned in ways boxers over here aren't...well, not many anyhow. Hopkins would be a guy who is similarly conditioned. Strong in places American boxers barely even use anymore.

    When Kostya dumped his rushing Amateur style, he became one of the most efficient Boxer/Punchers of the day. Laser accurate, good focus, held up well under pressure. The moment of his that stood out to me the most was his win over Livingstone Bramble, I'd always had respect for Bramble as he was one of those hard-nosed veterans with old school knowledge, who was always much too brave for his own good. Even he had to praise Kostya after their bout:



    Bramble was always tough, but that day he just got beaten-up. It was a sign of things to come, the precision with which he was taken apart. I haven't watched that fight in forever, but you can watch it yourself and see if my memory is accurate, as I don't remember Bramble winning one second of that bout. And he was usually the kind of veteran who could sneak off with rounds against young prospects.

    Tszyu had only really one glaring lapse of his abilities, and that was in the bout with Vince Phillips:



    And he was still busting Vince up in that bout.

    Leave us not also forget that Kostya was only about a point down when he retired on his stool against Hatton. People tend to accredit that to either his toughness, his punch, or both. But Tszyu was more than that, he was an excellent tactician in there. He was seldom off-balance, seldom out of position, and well-armed to capitalize on a mistake if you made it one. As he did with Judah, which will forever be a HL reel KO.
     
  9. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    65
    A coupla things

    What did you men by "strong in places where American boxers barely even use anymore" ?

    You really think he actually did those excercises as a legit training tool or was he just able to do that because of the physical specimen he was ?
    How about it's just something hes ( or others) thought about but don't use on the regular. Yanking the chain , so to speak .
    Like Ali and his water boxing.
     
  10. Never**

    Never** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    The reflexes thing were cool. I've done the coin thing as a kid. I think I read about it in a Bruce lee book.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  11. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    65
    He learnt that from a young Kosta btw
     
  12. Never**

    Never** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well he read many books about boxing and such.
     
  13. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,157
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Location:
    Vegas
    There's a reason I mentioned Pedro Diaz and his similar methods, it's to demonstrate that they're training tools utilized by Countries that were allies, specifically in their Boxing programs. Pedro Diaz isn't just a Cuban Boxing trainer, he ran their entire Amateur program for a while, and assisted in the development of many similar exercises.

    Physical education in places like that are very different than what we call physical education here. I have vague memories of being made to do poor-form jumping jacks as a kid myself, and it's gotten worse over the years. I've mentioned in other threads that the elder guard of Boxing trainers had multiple facets, many of them felt it was their duty to know the same basic things a Doctor would, a masseur, a psychologist, and a physical therapist...emphasis on the last part. If you have issues with your posture, or poor rotation in your legs/hips, poor ankle mobility, other such things, a physical therapist might be a good person to see. Then again so would a good athletic trainer. But Boxing trainers in many instances have fallen off in this aspect. Many of them simply try to talk a fighter into looking somewhat acceptable, rather than taking someone who physically cannot do what is being asked of them, and conditioning them to be able to do so.

    So if you see a guy who is so-conditioned, can he do the exercises because he is well-conditioned? Or is he well-conditioned because he can do the exercises. The answer to the question is "yes."

    Kostya didn't make that stuff up, it's part of the curriculum in Countries where their athletes live on stipends, and the Coaches spend all day thinking of any crazy thing they can to improve something. The difference is those Countries did it for "Olympic Glory"...and in the process they stumbled upon some real gems of how to get improve a boxer.
     
  14. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    65
    You know any good books on the subject ?
    Like in depth stuff , not "Basics for Beginners" stuff.

    In depth , where they talk about thier methodologies , philosophys etc etc
     
  15. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,157
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Location:
    Vegas
    Unfortunately no. Dadi and I are working on a manual, but it's going to be a LONG time in the making. Eventually we'll also be doing Boxing Coaching seminars and shit, once we're a bit more old and grizzled and people take us more seriously (or if we train more than a few notable fighters).

    We had to piece all this stuff together from a lot of different sources. Fortunately for me, Mike was first trained by a Cuban, then Georgie Benton, Emmanuel Steward, and then Futch. Benton and Futch knew a lot of this stuff, but I had to beat it out of Mike. Then I worked with Merqui, and the Dominican Republic's programs were not much different than Cuba's. Dadi's first trainer was also Cuban, and he observed a lot, but like myself, he learned more from his own exploration.
     
  16. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    65
    Fk......would love to know shit about Georgie Benton.

    Did mike train you (later on) as a repository of his knowledge or it's just shit you had to pick up from what and how he taught you ?

    My coach got mad respect for him btw ( most pros do ) .
    Talks about how he's one of the very very few who you never saw getting beat up in a fight.
     
  17. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,157
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Location:
    Vegas
    Oh it's rough to learn from Mike, he was very very good and isn't an equally good communicator. You have to be very observant to get the best of what you can learn from him. Watch what he does and figure out why it's different than what you're doing, because he kinda speaks his own language, and you may not get it in the explanation.

    But yeah, he knows every trick in the book. You just gotta know how and when to ask him about them.
     
  18. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    65
    I read somewhere where Emmanuel Steward talks about mccallum
    Said he was the most talented guy he ever trained.
    You just had to tell him what to do and he would do it right there n then.
    That said , he did say his flaw was that he wasn't the best to manage.
    Listened to too many ppl and was easy to sway.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  19. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,228
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks Sinister. Thats was great.
     
  20. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,157
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Location:
    Vegas
    Yeah, I could go on and on about that stuff, and about current stuff. But make no mistake, when it comes to performing Boxing, Mike is a master craftsman. That can never be denied. You ever see this?



    Now I'd always heard the stories, but it was interesting to actually see Hearns getting the better of Mike, UNTIL Mike started attacking the body.

    As Kostya would say, no worries.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.