Anaconda Troubleshooting

[mataleaos]

I used to mess around with it when I was a white belt but I haven't touched half guard since then. I've never trained with someone who emphasized it in their curriculum.

I'm one of the only people left it seems that still likes to play a good bit of half guard in these modern times of everyone playing seated guards. I'm glad Craig Jones and Lachlan Giles play some half. Now I can 'appeal to authority' and tell my partners that actually good people do it too.

 

[asian-glow]

I think @Uchi Mata is saying that he doesn't think the ability to front roll with an arm-in guillotine grip is going to fade away with age as you lose athleticism and flexibility. Although he said he could see flexibility in later years being an issue for rocking back onto your shoulder after the roll in order to trap their arm with your legs.

And side note. To me that position itself (I call it the Rafa hub) is one of the best control positions no one talks about. You've got anaconda, darce, guillotine, and easy switches to take top side control or crucifix. When you're in the Rafa hub their movement is very limited and you have a ton of control. It may not be quite as strong of a control as a T-Kimura or a full 4-11 but it's in the same ballpark.

You prefer it to front headlock? I feel like the hub (the inverted/upside down headlock) is too scrambly. It's a scramble I'm usually gunna win because I have the chin but still.

 

[asian-glow]

Chest puff, squeeze, and locking a leg in to get his hips isolated and folding his diaphragm with your full hip power.

Thanks for the tip and nice pic.

Interestingly you seem to pancake out when put in an anaconda from the front headlock to counteract being put on your side. It's very difficult to turn on you but I also feel hesitant to give up the hold and switch to a guillotine, which I suspect is what you're waiting for.

How do people have the most success combating your counter or what do you do when people flatten out on you?

 

[mataleaos]

You prefer it to front headlock? I feel like the hub (the inverted/upside down headlock) is too scrambly. It's a scramble I'm usually gunna win because I have the chin but still.

I don't actually mean the inverted north south. I should have clarified. I mean this right here. The pic down below is the Rafa hub. I'd still rather have the front headlock because of the back attack opportunities but if you do positional sparring starting from the Rafa hub to really get your control good, then I'm just saying is close to the level of control that you get from a good double trouble 4-11 or good T-Kimura.

Edit: Try some positional sparring where you start from there. The person on offense has to finish with an a choke. Person on defense needs to escape to top position and clear any submission threats or re-guard. The most common reaction for the person on defense tends to be coming up to both knees. If they do that you can just ride them up to the front headlock. They end up pulling your weight with them as they come up once you're glued tight. As they pull you up you can also ride it into a marce on the trapped arm. Rafa taught that at the 1st seminar of his I went to as a follow up if they get to their knees from there.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Thanks for the tip and nice pic.

Interestingly you seem to pancake out when put in an anaconda from the front headlock to counteract being put on your side. It's very difficult to turn on you but I also feel hesitant to give up the hold and switch to a guillotine, which I suspect is what you're waiting for.

How do people have the most success combating your counter or what do you do when people flatten out on you?

To be completely honest, I dont get d'arced if I am trying hard. I have been D'arced one time in the last 3 years by Geo. He got the jump on me, has little arms, locked it in like a razor wire, and caught the leg. Other than that, I let them try, flatten out, they give up on in or transition, and I just time it and sweep. More often than not, I actually turn away and let them burn their arms out and fight the choke with my core.

I have taught the flatten defense to a lot of people at my gym. It is very frustrating when they do it because they just concede position and any chance at either finishing or catching them in a transition is gone. I usually just go straight to a north south choke or a north south shoulder lock to get them to move.

 

[DatCutman]

Other than that, I let them try, flatten out, they give up on in or transition, and I just time it and sweep. More often than not, I actually turn away and let them burn their arms out and fight the choke with my core.

What sweeps are you going for after you flatten out?

 

[Dirty Holt]

What sweeps are you going for after you flatten out?

Singles, barrel role, switches, double off knees, far side knee blocks

 

[asian-glow]

Hip check counter

Sometimes my opponents will use the trapped arm to frame off of my hips to prevent me from capturing one of their legs and to prevent me from getting in close to them.

Does anyone have any ways to counter this?

 

[mataleaos]

Hip check counter

Sometimes my opponents will use the trapped arm to frame off of my hips to prevent me from capturing one of their legs and to prevent me from getting in close to them.

Does anyone have any ways to counter this?

Totally. I'm not sure your entry but on the finish. If you're walking in like Homer Simpson and they are posting on your hips you can do a mini-scoot away and make a wide arc semi-circle with your top leg to drop it on top of their arm to trap it, Rafa style. You can also sort of "unwind" yourself by going flat-back and then rotating back to your side again. Both of these two things get your hips just out of their reach and then move them back towards them again but at an angle where you can trap their arm with your top leg.

If you're feeling really froggy you can do a granby roll across your shoulders and land on your other hip. This will take your figure-four lock from facing the ceiling and make it face the floor. Contrary to what some say, you can finish the anaconda with your lock facing down (choking knuckles facing the floor). By going across your shoulders to switch hips they usually lose their frame in the transition. And if you aren't comfortable finishing with your lock facing down you can switch to a brabo as you granby and you'll be finishing that with your lock facing up as you land ('marce' style).

Depending on your anaconda entry you can bypass their arm posting on you by getting leg control first. Anytime I want to finish an anaconda or brabo with the lock facing the ceiling I like to get the leg trap first and go to my hip/side. So from top half for example with the anaconda you can get your arm-in guillotine grip and go ahead and fall behind their head almost like a Japanese necktie and then lock the figure-four. Their leghs are already trapped. If they start to open their elbow wide then you can release the leg and trap that arm instead of their leg.

 

[jimglynn]

I'm 55 and do rolling guillotines and anacondas all the time. However, seldom do I invert on the bottom.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

 

[RemyR]

I would also recommend the DDS/Danaher rotational finish. On most of their no-gi strangles (rear naked, power guillotine, darce, anaconda) they favor a finish where they draw the main choking arm backwards. Same feel as a boanero choke or a one-armed RNC. It draws the arm across the arteries to really cut into them. @Mikey Triangles was posting about this technique on top-finish, slide-finish, and mount-finish darces way back in 2010. I haven't seen many people emphasize it since then but Danaher and his guys are preaching it heavily on their DVDs and at their seminars whenever they show most arm chokes.

So once you're in the final anaconda finishing position (say with your right arm punched deep while on your right hip) you would clock in towards their hips like usual while also drawing your right elbow backwards slightly. It should cut through most of their resistance and I like it better than what Rafa says to do (mostly just squeeze hard and clock in towards their feet).

I can vouch for this

 

[mataleaos]

Totally. I'm not sure your entry but on the finish. If you're walking in like Homer Simpson and they are posting on your hips you can do a mini-scoot away and make a wide arc semi-circle with your top leg to drop it on top of their arm to trap it, Rafa style. You can also sort of "unwind" yourself by going flat-back and then rotating back to your side again. Both of these two things get your hips just out of their reach and then move them back towards them again but at an angle where you can trap their arm with your top leg.

If you're feeling really froggy you can do a granby roll across your shoulders and land on your other hip. This will take your figure-four lock from facing the ceiling and make it face the floor. Contrary to what some say, you can finish the anaconda with your lock facing down (choking knuckles facing the floor). By going across your shoulders to switch hips they usually lose their frame in the transition. And if you aren't comfortable finishing with your lock facing down you can switch to a brabo as you granby and you'll be finishing that with your lock facing up as you land ('marce' style).

Depending on your anaconda entry you can bypass their arm posting on you by getting leg control first. Anytime I want to finish an anaconda or brabo with the lock facing the ceiling I like to get the leg trap first and go to my hip/side. So from top half for example with the anaconda you can get your arm-in guillotine grip and go ahead and fall behind their head almost like a Japanese necktie and then lock the figure-four. Their leghs are already trapped. If they start to open their elbow wide then you can release the leg and trap that arm instead of their leg.

@asian-glow for the technique in the second paragraph (anaconda to brabo switch via granby) i think you can see Rafa Mendes attempt it on Leo vieira in their match.

 

[asian-glow]

Rotational Finish Awkward

I haven't had much practice with it but the rotational finish is awkward to me. Danaher likens the rotational finish to that of a RNC. In a RNC, however, nothing impedes my arm from drawing my forearm across uke's throat. With the anaconda, however, my shoulder is on the ground - I feel like friction impedes my ability to do the rotational finish. Furthermore, on thicker opponents for whom my arms can barely hold onto, my arms are already so taut that I feel like the opponent himself is blocking me from the rotational finish.

Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[rmongler]

I feel like butterflying your arms, like in a short darce grip(--), so that you can involve your elbow too (like on a shultz front headlock), would be good for getting more of a bite on larger targets.

 

[mataleaos]

Rotational Finish Awkward

I haven't had much practice with it but the rotational finish is awkward to me. Danaher likens the rotational finish to that of a RNC. In a RNC, however, nothing impedes my arm from drawing my forearm across uke's throat. With the anaconda, however, my shoulder is on the ground - I feel like friction impedes my ability to do the rotational finish. Furthermore, on thicker opponents for whom my arms can barely hold onto, my arms are already so taut that I feel like the opponent himself is blocking me from the rotational finish.

Any feedback is appreciated.

I give you so much props for trying so hard to make this thing work for you. It's not an easy submission against game training partners.

Sometimes your forearm isn’t even across the throat right? I think it depends partially on how they land. Sometimes they're on their side (forearm across the thorat is easier here) and sometimes they end up with their back on the mat facing the ceiling. The point is your position usually doesn't change (on your side with the choking knuckles facing the ceiling) and their can be anywhere from on their side to on their back or anything in between. I think the rotational finish works best if they're facing straight up because your forearm really cuts into the side of their neck. You can also come up to both knees and pull them up onto their side in a north south angle and do the rotational finish from there.


The floor definitely makes the rotation a little more difficult. If you're having issues with the rotational finish or with trapping their legs with your legs and bridging. Have you ever tried just making a really big chest and holding? Doesn't work for me but some people love it.

 

[asian-glow]

I give you so much props for trying so hard to make this thing work for you. It's not an easy submission against game training partners.

Sometimes your forearm isn’t even across the throat right? I think it depends partially on how they land. Sometimes they're on their side (forearm across the thorat is easier here) and sometimes they end up with their back on the mat facing the ceiling. The point is your position usually doesn't change (on your side with the choking knuckles facing the ceiling) and their can be anywhere from on their side to on their back or anything in between. I think the rotational finish works best if they're facing straight up because your forearm really cuts into the side of their neck. You can also come up to both knees and pull them up onto their side in a north south angle and do the rotational finish from there.


The floor definitely makes the rotation a little more difficult. If you're having issues with the rotational finish or with trapping their legs with your legs and bridging. Have you ever tried just making a really big chest and holding? Doesn't work for me but some people love it.

The "big chest" finishing mechanic is the one the person in the first video recommends. It feels much more intuitive than the rotational finish but I feel also increases the crank %. I think I just haven't put enough time into the rotational finish yet for it to pay off - I'm willing to invest a little more time.

I recently started training at a new school for a month and had a new crop of individuals to try my game on. Interestingly once again, I have some of the greatest difficulty finishing the choke on people with smaller than average necks and arms. I also hit a skill ceiling where I begin to have trouble hitting it on brown and black belts.

I also encountered a defense I had never seen before. Usually when I collect the legs on the anaconda, my finishing percentage is very high. I had one opponent who repeatedly managed to untangle himself from my leg tap while in the anaconda. I'll have to figure out a more secure way of tangling up the legs.

Furthermore, I re-encountered a problem where I believe uke used their trapped arm to post on my armpit or body to prevent me from closing the distance between our bodies. It was pretty effective and I didnt know how to stop it. People do a similar, distance-creating maneuver to me when I have the D'arce grip as well. I suspect I have to be more proactive about using my legs to address this.

Finally I noticed I do all of my front headlock entries into the anaconda the way Rafa does in the gif - I always dump them directly into the choke and start peeling their trapped arm with my leg. I know Danaher recommends the "Olympic roll" (i.e. gator roll) entry but I've just never liked it.

As always thanks for your input.

 

[mataleaos]

The "big chest" finishing mechanic is the one the person in the first video recommends. It feels much more intuitive than the rotational finish but I feel also increases the crank %. I think I just haven't put enough time into the rotational finish yet for it to pay off - I'm willing to invest a little more time.

I recently started training at a new school for a month and had a new crop of individuals to try my game on. Interestingly once again, I have some of the greatest difficulty finishing the choke on people with smaller than average necks and arms. I also hit a skill ceiling where I begin to have trouble hitting it on brown and black belts.

I also encountered a defense I had never seen before. Usually when I collect the legs on the anaconda, my finishing percentage is very high. I had one opponent who repeatedly managed to untangle himself from my leg tap while in the anaconda. I'll have to figure out a more secure way of tangling up the legs.

Furthermore, I re-encountered a problem where I believe uke used their trapped arm to post on my armpit or body to prevent me from closing the distance between our bodies. It was pretty effective and I didnt know how to stop it. People do a similar, distance-creating maneuver to me when I have the D'arce grip as well. I suspect I have to be more proactive about using my legs to address this.

Finally I noticed I do all of my front headlock entries into the anaconda the way Rafa does in the gif - I always dump them directly into the choke and start peeling their trapped arm with my leg. I know Danaher recommends the "Olympic roll" (i.e. gator roll) entry but I've just never liked it.

As always thanks for your input.

Two things and I’ll post more later. Danaher does show the Rafa entry (non gator roll) he just calls it the sagging entry. You may want to revisit that? Also, on the guy freeing his legs from yours. Same deal with the Homer Simpson darce (marce). If you trap their bottom leg they can use their top leg to help kick it free. If you trap the top leg it’s much more difficult for them to free it because their free leg can't kick because it's stuck under the trapped leg. Another way to make it harder for them to kick free is to always try to catch above their knee if you can and ideally even over their hip almost like you're trying to throw a closed guard around them even though you're both on your sides.

There's no consensus on which leg is best to trap. Trapping the top leg has its own weaknesses as they can base up onto their bottom knee more easily. But I think that’s an easier problem to deal with than the bottom leg problem.

Also if you trap the bottom leg they can start to get their back to the mat more easily than if you have the top leg. May or may not be an issue. On the marce I don’t like them going flat back. Most chest down defenses are easy to shut down so with the marce I much prefer trapping the top leg. But on the anaconda I like when they go face up so I like trapping the bottom leg more on the anaconda.

On either one trapping both legs is the best but it's kind of hard to do.

edit: Yeah the legs have to be active on all arm triangles (not just the anaconda, darce, and marce) to fight the trapped arm or deal with their legs. Even on basic side choke arm triangles if you aren't mindful of your legs they can tangle them up and kill your angle a little bit.

 

[asian-glow]

@Invisible Jiu Jitsu

I noticed you trained luta livre under Milton Vieira, who is famous for his anaconda choke. I have seen his whole BJJ library series and he doesn't go into much detail regarding finishing mechanics - it's more so about entries.

Does he have any unique details regarding the finish that you haven't seen elsewhere?

 

[Invisible Jiu Jitsu]

@Invisible Jiu Jitsu

I noticed you trained luta livre under Milton Vieira, who is famous for his anaconda choke. I have seen his whole BJJ library series and he doesn't go into much detail regarding finishing mechanics - it's more so about entries.

Does he have any unique details regarding the finish that you haven't seen elsewhere?

not that i've seen regarding the finish, nothing too secret. A good squeeze and torquing and folding the head