Anaconda Troubleshooting

[asian-glow]

My plan is to use this thread as an archive for my own troubleshooting with the Anaconda choke.

#1: Finishing Mechanic - Chest Puff


The relevant part of the video is from (timestamp - 10:40).

Question: Do you guys use this "chest puff" finishing mechanic? Do you find success with it and how do you do it? Are there other resources that elaborate on this finishing mechanic or one that you use?

Background:

I typically collect the leg to finish the anaconda (and the darce) whenever I can. I find it to almost be a necessity on people who are versed in defending the anaconda.

We have all seen the footage of Rafa tapping Galvao with the anaconda. While I understand Galvao was tired, they were going hard. Rafa finished without collecting the leg and from what I recall, without even fully breaking down Galvao's arm.

The guy in the video featured above took a private from Rafa Mendes specifically on the anaconda in 2014. Early in the video, the guy teaches the anaconda nearly identical to the way Rafa teaches it on his video in YouTube. This guy adds a chest expansion detail, which I imagine is similar to how some people finish the RNC.

Thoughts?

 

[Dirty Holt]

Chest puff, squeeze, and locking a leg in to get his hips isolated and folding his diaphragm with your full hip power.

 

[mataleaos]

Hopefully I can help a little bit. I did a private with Rafa on the anaconda choke in 2012 and again in 2015 to ask if he had made any significant changes. I spent a lot of time working on it and it still feels okay to me. Good but not great. It's a somewhat easy position to get into if you do his top rolling setup. The flip side is that for most people the finish itself is more difficult than darces or guillotines.

Rafa never mentioned the big chest puff detail but that video you posted covers most of the details. The big difference between 2012 and 2015 was to not just pull your arm deeper once you trap their arm with your legs, but to pull your arm out, away, up, and then in.

The guy in your video basically shows that. The idea is almost the opposite of the darce. On the darce you don’t want to over penetrate and you just want the ridge of your thumb along the back of their neck, leaving plenty of space between the front of their throat and your biceps. The anaconda you really want to get as deep as possible.

In 2015 he said he had gone from doing mostly anacondas to mixing in more darces and guillotines. He said he mostly likes anacondas with his right arm and darces with his left arm. So he has an arm triangle for each side he said. He said he can guillotine with each arm but prefers the right. He said most people are better at the darce but he learned the anaconda first and got comfortable with it due to having long arms and big hands for his height and weight. He said he doesn’t really try to trap the legs but always walks towards their feet. He also said he tries to walk with only the bottom leg, leaving the top leg on top of their arm to keep it squashed down if possible. If he does trap the legs he likes to come up to the knees then trap them and then fall back down behind the head again.

There are two types of anacondas as Rafa explained it. There are ones where the uke are on their side and ones where they are on their back. If they’re on their side you want to be as deep as possible. If they’re on their back you can almost draw your elbow back like a darce to use your forearm against the side of their neck. You can even come up to both knees and pull them onto their side to finish, almost like a backwards darce. You can see Rafa doing both of those things here:

 

[rmongler]

The most important detail i've noticed is making sure the arm is trapped and collapsed against the head/neck. Josh Hinger usually uses his leg as a 'third arm' to do this. Depending on how deep or shallow your shooting arm is in you can collapse it 'Dave Schultz' style with just the arms too.



Used basically the exact same sequence to finish his match in the ADCC trials final as well.

 

[EddieLovesYou]

Try adding an Americana at the same time:

 

[rmongler]

Try adding an Americana at the same time:

Can confirm that this technique is a technique.

 

[mataleaos]

I would also recommend the DDS/Danaher rotational finish. On most of their no-gi strangles (rear naked, power guillotine, darce, anaconda) they favor a finish where they draw the main choking arm backwards. Same feel as a boanero choke or a one-armed RNC. It draws the arm across the arteries to really cut into them. @Mikey Triangles was posting about this technique on top-finish, slide-finish, and mount-finish darces way back in 2010. I haven't seen many people emphasize it since then but Danaher and his guys are preaching it heavily on their DVDs and at their seminars whenever they show most arm chokes.

So once you're in the final anaconda finishing position (say with your right arm punched deep while on your right hip) you would clock in towards their hips like usual while also drawing your right elbow backwards slightly. It should cut through most of their resistance and I like it better than what Rafa says to do (mostly just squeeze hard and clock in towards their feet).

 

[nijak05]

I would also recommend the DDS/Danaher rotational finish. On most of their no-gi strangles (rear naked, power guillotine, darce, anaconda) they favor a finish where they draw the main choking arm backwards. Same feel as a boanero choke or a one-armed RNC. It draws the arm across the arteries to really cut into them. @Mikey Triangles was posting about this technique on top-finish, slide-finish, and mount-finish darces way back in 2010. I haven't seen many people emphasize it since then but Danaher and his guys are preaching it heavily on their DVDs and at their seminars whenever they show most arm chokes.

So once you're in the final anaconda finishing position (say with your right arm punched deep while on your right hip) you would clock in towards their hips like usual while also drawing your right elbow backwards slightly. It should cut through most of their resistance and I like it better than what Rafa says to do (mostly just squeeze hard and clock in towards their feet).

Is this what lachlan calls “Rowing motion” in his no go chokes dvd?
It’s a great set btw - you should check it out if you haven’t..
I mostly do gi - hunt for the neck and head and arm a lot lately but I also have a hard time finishing the anaconda - especially if they create a strong frame against my hip/and or the floor - somehow I guess they open that shoulder up hindering the finish..

Oh and I also find it hard to do that rotational finish I mean - my elbow is pretty much on the floor so it can’t go any further back.. or should I lift my hips more, squeeze my elbows together and try and connect my bottom elbow to my lower hipbone?

 

[DatCutman]

He said most people are better at the darce but he learned the anaconda first and got comfortable with it due to having long arms and big hands for his height and weight.

I've noticed that too. The learning curve on anaconda's is definitely higher than the darce. I'd guess it's because it's a more natural position from which to smash their shoulder into their neck, whereas with the anaconda it's a little trickier to get that shoulder up in there. Who knows though.

I focus more on the anaconda myself, solely because the spinning people and fishing for the choke looks slightly cooler (i.e., the "rule of cool").

 

[mataleaos]

Is this what lachlan calls “Rowing motion” in his no go chokes dvd?
It’s a great set btw - you should check it out if you haven’t..
I mostly do gi - hunt for the neck and head and arm a lot lately but I also have a hard time finishing the anaconda - especially if they create a strong frame against my hip/and or the floor - somehow I guess they open that shoulder up hindering the finish..

Oh and I also find it hard to do that rotational finish I mean - my elbow is pretty much on the floor so it can’t go any further back.. or should I lift my hips more, squeeze my elbows together and try and connect my bottom elbow to my lower hipbone?

Yeah it's very similar to what Giles showed. I also agree his choke set is great. For your question I agree it can be hard to retract the elbow since it's so closed to the floor anyways. Lifting your hips may give you more clearance to do it? I'd say it's worth a shot.

This might be an unpopular opinion but the anacondas choke is just sort of an inherently difficult choke to finish consistently and without a lot of energy output for most people. There's a bio-mechanical reason for this. The back-stop on most arm triangles is your chest or your shoulder and the lock closes away from their trapped shoulder/arm. For example. On side chokes it's your chest or clavicle. On darces it's your chest or shoulder. On rear arm triangles it's your shoulder.

The anaconda is not like the rest. The lock closes on the trapped shoulder/arm and there is no body structure like your chest to back-stop it. That's why the Rafa Mendes leg-squash on top of their arm is so useful. It helps put more of a solid back-stop behind their arm.

It's one of my favorite techniques but it's not quite as versatile or as easy to finish as its neighbors: guillotine and darce.

 

[mataleaos]

I've noticed that too. The learning curve on anaconda's is definitely higher than the darce. I'd guess it's because it's a more natural position from which to smash their shoulder into their neck, whereas with the anaconda it's a little trickier to get that shoulder up in there. Who knows though.

I focus more on the anaconda myself, solely because the spinning people and fishing for the choke looks slightly cooler (i.e., the "rule of cool").

That's absolutely true. Also you have to be square in front of them to get it. So that means front headlock or rolling over them to the 'inverted north south' position where you're both facing the ceiling. Those are the main entries. And the main finish is almost always the one where your choking knuckles are facing the ceiling as you're both on your sides.

The darce is like the kimura. Anytime they have an open elbow you can 'reach' in for it. Those are 2 of the only subs that you can get by reaching from the outside-in, without dominating the inside space first. That's why someone can release dvd sets like Darcepedia or Bringing Back the Brabo that show dozens of setups. And also like the kimura, there are many different angles and positions to finish the darce from after you've fully locked the position.

I like you "rule of cool". I base a lot of what I like based on how cool I think it looks. Might not always be the smartest decision but oh well. The gator roll definitely looks sweet.

 

[asian-glow]

I've noticed that too. The learning curve on anaconda's is definitely higher than the darce. I'd guess it's because it's a more natural position from which to smash their shoulder into their neck, whereas with the anaconda it's a little trickier to get that shoulder up in there. Who knows though.

I focus more on the anaconda myself, solely because the spinning people and fishing for the choke looks slightly cooler (i.e., the "rule of cool").

This is really interesting to me. The anaconda was much more natural for me to finish. The rafa roll from half guard to NS headlock was something I thought I invented. Every time I asked people about the anaconda choke I had done to them, they all told me it was a clean choke - I had never been taught a lesson on the anaconda or looked up an instructional.

The darce on the other hand was always a crank. It took me years of consulting many people and looking up many videos to not crank people (as often).

The rule of cool is also an interesting point. I know the Gracie's are all about longevity and playing an old man's game, which is smart. But after about purple belt you can handle most people. You only have so many years to be young and do cool stuff you may not be able to do later on in life. Rafa's DDR passing is really inefficient for me but the one time I pull it off I feel amazing.

 

[mataleaos]

This is really interesting to me. The anaconda was much more natural for me to finish. The rafa roll from half guard to NS headlock was something I thought I invented. Every time I asked people about the anaconda choke I had done to them, they all told me it was a clean choke - I had never been taught a lesson on the anaconda or looked up an instructional.

The darce on the other hand was always a crank. It took me years of consulting many people and looking up many videos to not crank people (as often).

The rule of cool is also an interesting point. I know the Gracie's are all about longevity and playing an old man's game, which is smart. But after about purple belt you can handle most people. You only have so many years to be young and do cool stuff you may not be able to do later on in life. Rafa's DDR passing is really inefficient for me but the one time I pull it off I feel amazing.

1. That's awesome it was so intuitive for you and you discovered the Rafa roll without being taught it.

2. I believe the Rafa roll and the 'Rafa hub' position afterwards is both very natural and fairly easy to get to. It's a super powerful position. The Achilles heel is that for most people the anaconda finish itself isn't that easy. You're in the lucky minority so you should definitely stick with it. I use the setup and the leg-trap on their arm all the time, but to pummel the darce (like Edwin Najmi) 2/3rds of the time and I try to keep the anaconda somewhat sharp on that last 33%.

3. Rule of cool is underrated. That's a big reason why I moved away from top darce finishes and switched to sliding ones (like the marce and farce entries). I like someone thinking they're about to come on top and bam you slide to marce or fall behind them for a 'conda and they're toast when they thought they were getting on top. I also think it looks cooler on like a marce or anaconda that their face is visible and not hidden under your body so everyone can see them turning red

 

[dmwalking]

I do just about everything in that video. The leg pushing down the arm is probably my most important detail.

For the finish I prefer to roll them onto their back and mount. Lots of pressure with minimal effort.

 

[dmwalking]

The most important detail i've noticed is making sure the arm is trapped and collapsed against the head/neck. Josh Hinger usually uses his leg as a 'third arm' to do this. Depending on how deep/shallow your shooting arm is in you can collapse it 'Dave Schultz' style with just the arms too.



Used basically the exact same sequence to finish his match in the ADCC trials final as well.

Hinger's front headlock game is so damn good.

 

[Uchi Mata]

This is really interesting to me. The anaconda was much more natural for me to finish. The rafa roll from half guard to NS headlock was something I thought I invented. Every time I asked people about the anaconda choke I had done to them, they all told me it was a clean choke - I had never been taught a lesson on the anaconda or looked up an instructional.

The darce on the other hand was always a crank. It took me years of consulting many people and looking up many videos to not crank people (as often).

The rule of cool is also an interesting point. I know the Gracie's are all about longevity and playing an old man's game, which is smart. But after about purple belt you can handle most people. You only have so many years to be young and do cool stuff you may not be able to do later on in life. Rafa's DDR passing is really inefficient for me but the one time I pull it off I feel amazing.

I don't actually think rolling Anaconda chokes are overly fancy or difficult. On the contrary, it should be something everyone has because attacking a front headlock is an important strategy for passing Z/RDLR without the gi. It's also not high impact, you're just doing a forward roll. I don't see an endpoint to my being able to do a front roll off an arm in guillotine from top half, though I could see losing the flexibility to collect the arm with your leg.

 

[asian-glow]

I don't see an endpoint to my being able to do a front roll off an arm in guillotine from top half, though I could see losing the flexibility to collect the arm with your leg.

Sorry, could you rephrase this?

Otherwise I agree with you. I don't think rolling headlocks are fancy. They are indeed a critical part of nogi passing.

 

[yetanother]

The rule of cool is also an interesting point. I know the Gracie's are all about longevity and playing an old man's game, which is smart. But after about purple belt you can handle most people. You only have so many years to be young and do cool stuff you may not be able to do later on in life. Rafa's DDR passing is really inefficient for me but the one time I pull it off I feel amazing.

I'm not sure a lot of the old school stuff is that good on the body. I play half and I don't think it's that good.

 

[asian-glow]

I'm not sure a lot of the old school stuff is that good on the body. I play half and I don't think it's that good.

I used to mess around with it when I was a white belt but I haven't touched half guard since then. I've never trained with someone who emphasized it in their curriculum.

 

[mataleaos]

Sorry, could you rephrase this?

Otherwise I agree with you. I don't think rolling headlocks are fancy. They are indeed a critical part of nogi passing.

I think @Uchi Mata is saying that he doesn't think the ability to front roll with an arm-in guillotine grip is going to fade away with age as you lose athleticism and flexibility. Although he said he could see flexibility in later years being an issue for rocking back onto your shoulder after the roll in order to trap their arm with your legs.

And side note. To me that position itself (I call it the Rafa hub) is one of the best control positions no one talks about. You've got anaconda, darce, guillotine, and easy switches to take top side control or crucifix. When you're in the Rafa hub their movement is very limited and you have a ton of control. It may not be quite as strong of a control as a T-Kimura or a full 4-11 but it's in the same ballpark.