an alternative to Starting Strength

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Rumorz, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. Rumorz

    Rumorz White Belt

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    As an alternative to Starting Strength, can I get some feedback on the below?:

    Day 1
    OHP - 5x5
    Squat variation - 5x5
    Inverted Rows - 4xf

    Day 2 & Day 4
    Grip training
    Core training
    Prowler/Sled

    Day 3
    DL or Clean - 5x3
    Bench Press - 5x5

    Day 5
    Squat variation - 5x5
    OHP - 5x5
    Shrugs

    all of the above with the goal of increasing each lift 5lbs per session

    [...]

    The reason I'm asking for an alternative to SS is I have shitty recovery on the squats. I've tried to run the cycle twice now, and even with a huge caloric surplus and ample rest/recovery methods, the squats made me whole body feel like shit for days after. I was hoping something like this would be a suitable substitute. I welcome all thoughts and comments as I want to start a log ASAP!
     
  2. gza

    gza Banned Banned

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    i've asked this before to one of the strongest posters here, and his answer was:

    Day 1
    DL/Clean variation
    Shrugs

    Day 2
    bench
    dips
    barbell row

    Day 3
    Back Squat
    Front Squat/Lunges
    Calf Raises

    Day 4
    Barbell OHP
    Pull/Chin Ups Variation
     
  3. gza

    gza Banned Banned

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    i would also recommend not doing grip or core training on your off days as it may hinder your squats/deadlift progress. you may just want to add those things as finishers to your training days.
     
  4. Cuban Moses

    Cuban Moses Orange Belt

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    This may sound like an overly simple answer, but lower the weight on your squats. It may not be what you want to hear, but if you lower the weights you will be able to recover. I doubt you will say if you worked out with the bar for your work sets you would be overly taxed.

    Since you are new to lifting you are better off trying a proven program for awhile. Once you start to understand what you are doing you can try designing a program.

    Having said that what you have posted is not a bad program. But since you are complaining about your work capacity for the squat, I don't see how this program will be any different. Depending on how you are using the prowler you essentially have a workout taxing the same muscles the squat uses.
     
  5. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    Or just start with 2 days a week. Or have the middle day be a light/GPP day. Or the 2 day split from the FAQ. You could also do something like:

    Day 1
    Squat
    Bench or Overhead press

    Day 2
    Deadlift
    Bench or Overhead press

    Day 3
    Squat
    Bench or Overhead press

    Plus some work on pull-ups, rows or face pulls each day. And since it seems you have access to a prowler/sled, you can regularly use it as a finisher to your workouts, which can also improve recovery.
     
  6. Rumorz

    Rumorz White Belt

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    Thanks. I saw something like this in the FAQ and was considering this as well.

    Good call on the prowler, never thought of that. I just want to get my conditioning up as well and thought that squatting 3x/week and running would be murder on the legs.

    Maybe I'll start with 95# on all lifts and work my way up. When I first started I was using 135# for the squat and was ashamed on how sore it made me.
     
  7. Rumorz

    Rumorz White Belt

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    Thanks, I like this too.

    Decisions, decisions.

    How do things like prowlers/sleds improve recovery?
     
  8. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    First, they get the blood flowing, which helps recovery. The prowler/sled has no eccentric, which means it doesn't add as much to the training load. And if somebody who is better conditioned and has a higher work capacity will have an easier time recovering from workouts, as well as having more energy during workouts.
     
  9. gza

    gza Banned Banned

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    thank you, rippetoe/wendler interview!
     
  10. Origins

    Origins Blue Belt

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    Why is that? Is that just because an eccentric adds more distance to the lift or are you saying it is actually the eccentric portion that taxes you? I am curious because things like cleans, snatches, and especially deadlifts have little to no eccentric but can still be very taxing.
     
  11. Dafreeclinic

    Dafreeclinic Orange Belt

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    Eccentric is the muscle lengthening so in some lifts (like the ones you listed) have your hamstrings and adductors work eccentrically. The eccentric exertion is what makes you sore.

    What about substituting front squats in occasionally since that seems easier on the legs but harder on the torso? Deadlifting instead on some days like someone posted earlier sounded like a good idea as well.
     
  12. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    With the eccentric the muscles contract, but without enough force to entirely resist the force of the weight, so they a forcibly lengthened. This means more microtrauma for the muscle, which increases recovery time. This means that lifts like deadlifts, cleans and snatches result in less muscular fatigue than if they did have an eccentric, however there still is going to be muscular fatigue and CNS fatigue, especially because these are challenging lifts.
     
  13. glennpendlay

    glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    Eccentric contractions are more damaging structurally to the muscle fibers, and therefore require more recovery time.
     
  14. glennpendlay

    glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    sorry, didnt see your response before I posted mine. You explained it pretty good.
     

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