American sniper. Hero or Murder? Just a movie or propaganda?

lapollarecords said:
we'll never know how many of the claimed 255 kills were real and how many of the real ones were innocent civilians.
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As mentioned on a previous page, confirmation of a kill requires a third party, which is listed at like 160.

So we know for sure that he has at least that many.

I'd also like to add that from my experience in the military and having worked with snipers, they don't just kill indiscriminately and adhere to a strict set of ROE's. However, I never met Kyle and wasn't there holding his hand, so who knows.
 
KILL KILL said:
As mentioned on a previous page, confirmation of a kill requires a third party, which is listed at like 160.

So we know for sure that he has at least that many.

I'd also like to add that from my experience in the military and having worked with snipers, they don't just kill indiscriminately and adhere to a strict set of ROE's. However, I never met Kyle and wasn't there holding his hand, so who knows.
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almost a hundred non confirmed kills in an area that is probably full of civilians. sounds like one of those WW2 german antipartisan reports. "we killed 800 partisans, and captured 7 rifles and 5 pistols"

Toothless King said:
Intentionally target civilians or mistaken civilians for enemy?
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didn't the guy admit to like killing? plus he claims a lot more kills than comfirmed, so a lot of them were supposedly done with no one watching. you get the idea.
 
lapollarecords said:
almost a hundred non confirmed kills in an area that is probably full of civilians. sounds like one of those WW2 german antipartisan reports. "we killed 800 partisans, and captured 7 rifles and 5 pistols"



didn't the guy admit to like killing? plus he claims a lot more kills than comfirmed, so a lot of them were supposedly done with no one watching. you get the idea.
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To clarify, I believe the body has to be identified in order to be confirmed.

So let's say that his team is on a mission where they are moving around. Since they can't go back and physically confirm that the individual is dead, they can't chalk it up.

Snipers don't operate as these borderline rogue entities, running around void of oversight, just gunning people down. It's important to understand this before making assumptions.
 
lapollarecords said:
almost a hundred non confirmed kills in an area that is probably full of civilians. sounds like one of those WW2 german antipartisan reports. "we killed 800 partisans, and captured 7 rifles and 5 pistols"



didn't the guy admit to like killing? plus he claims a lot more kills than comfirmed, so a lot of them were supposedly done with no one watching. you get the idea.
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I didn't read his book. Can you give me a quote to his book where he said he intentionally target civilians?

Also, what do you mean "with no one watching"? Are special ops sniper team supposed to have a camera crew tag along with them when they are on mission?
 
Originally Posted by Workers United View Post
Congrats for looking up a dictionary definition of propaganda.

The definition of propaganda, used in the vernacular, can be used to describe things that operate as propaganda regardless of artistic intentionality.

This definition expanded because people push political agendas all the time without even knowing it. Elements of a culture seep into all kinds of artistic products.

Sometimes it's easy to identify the agenda or narrative, and sometimes it isn't.

Often movies that make a lot of money do so because they strike a chord within a culture, but they do so because we've been trained to have that chord struck within us.

I forgive your ignorance but you have no idea what you are talking about.
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If you want to get this broad then every story told is propaganda, even every sentence written.

I believe going with direct intent would be more realistic.
 
KILL KILL said:
Another thread and another terrible post. How exactly has Hollywood "trained" us? Please do tell.
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Hollywood isn't the sole promoter, but rather drives the agenda that's already been instilled within us through education, the media, and those around us because those issues are profitable. I notice it when I see another slave or holocaust movie being praised each year in Hollywood as if I hadn't already learned about ****a-Kente the first time.
 
Hero is all about perspective...if youre military or pro military hes a hero..if youre anti middle east wars then hes a dumb dick with a gun. Killing that many people and being put in a pedestal for it says more about our culture and are unwilling ness to confront the cluster fucked lie that was the Iraqi war.

But one fact we can all agree on ....he is/was a liar.
 
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funcrusher2007 said:
Hero is all about perspective...if your military or pro military hes a hero..if your anti middle east wars then hes a dumb dick with a gun. Killing that many people and being put in a pedestal for it says more about our culture and are unwilling ness to confront the cluster fucked lie that was the Iraqi war.

But one fact we can all agree on ....he is a liar.
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I love how the 45 minute BS WMD claim that was used for justification of the Iraq war has been completely swept under the rug and erased from the minds of a lot of people.

We went to war in Iraq over some bullshit claims that were proven to be false.

FACT!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier
 
I have just started reading the book. I think it really depends on your perspective if he is a hero or a murder. He did fight for his country which most people choose not to.

Personally I do not find his comments towards killing "bad guys" weird. My father taught a course at the Venezuelan military academy about armies making sure their soldiers do not see their enemies as human beings. This is why you always get nicknames and the military encourages for your enemy. From Jerrys referring to the nazis, skinnies referring to somali fighters etc.

There is sufficient research to show if you believe your enemy is inferior and less then human or a "bad guy" it makes it easier to kill them. One thing my dad even taught at the course was the gamification of war.

He presented a case study on how a tank group killed 30 something enemy forces but since it was dark they were just shooting at lights on a screen using radar or something I am not quite sure of the technology. But after the battle and they realised what they did 3 member of the group suffered severe problems. One said "I thought they were just dots on a screen not human beings". This is why drone technology can be popular because it makes it for lack of a better word "fun" as in less real. Thus it is easier to take a life.

I do not think Kyle's comments about "fun" killing people means he is a terrible person. I think he was a brave man who was in a war. And he probably had to do what he had to do to and maybe making it "fun" was easier for him.

I have never served in the military. A few family members have and my dad taught at Venezuelan military academy. Though none have seen combat. They do say dehumanising your enemy makes it easier to fight your enemy.
 
kintana said:
I have just started reading the book. I think it really depends on your perspective if he is a hero or a murder. He did fight for his country which most people choose not to.

Personally I do not find his comments towards killing "bad guys" weird. My father taught a course at the Venezuelan military academy about armies making sure their soldiers do not see their enemies as human beings. This is why you always get nicknames and the military encourages for your enemy. From Jerrys referring to the nazis, skinnies referring to somali fighters etc.

There is sufficient research to show if you believe your enemy is inferior and less then human or a "bad guy" it makes it easier to kill them. One thing my dad even taught at the course was the gamification of war.

He presented a case study on how a tank group killed 30 something enemy forces but since it was dark they were just shooting at lights on a screen using radar or something I am not quite sure of the technology. But after the battle and they realised what they did 3 member of the group suffered severe problems. One said "I thought they were just dots on a screen not human beings". This is why drone technology can be popular because it makes it for lack of a better word "fun" as in less real. Thus it is easier to take a life.

I do not think Kyle's comments about "fun" killing people means he is a terrible person. I think he was a brave man who was in a war. And he probably had to do what he had to do to and maybe making it "fun" was easier for him.

I have never served in the military. A few family members have and my dad taught at Venezuelan military academy. Though none have seen combat. They do say dehumanising your enemy makes it easier to fight your enemy.
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It's not normal for a human being to take another life of a human being....unless you are a psychopath. That's why you have to dehumanized your enemy, thus making it easier for you to kill them. In WW1, soldiers from both sides had hard time shooting at each other because they were shooting at rounded targets in basic training until they changed the rounded target to human silhouette in basic training.
 
lapollarecords said:
didn't the guy admit to like killing? plus he claims a lot more kills than comfirmed, so a lot of them were supposedly done with no one watching. you get the idea.
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You don't know shit about snipers do you? The biggest reason a kill might not get confirmed is because of location. Snipers ALWAYS have a spotter so to not confirm "cause no one is watching" is fucking horseshit. The REASON they aren't confirmed is do you want to walk a mile into enemy territory just to confirm that some dude no longer has his head?
 
He was a man who did a job a very difficult job remarkably well. Being a guardian angel is no easy task and there is probably some 28 y/o former Lance Corporal waking up from a hangover because Kyle dropped a round between a gunman's running lights.

I am thankful for Chris Kyle. Not a very good person and not someone I would want my kids to model themselves after - that's easy enough to witness in his comments; but he undoubtedly did a phenomenal job in providing overwatch on his guys which is ultimately all I care about.
 
AgeofEmpires2 said:
Hollywood isn't the sole promoter, but rather drives the agenda that's already been instilled within us through education, the media, and those around us because those issues are profitable. I notice it when I see another slave or holocaust movie being praised each year in Hollywood as if I hadn't already learned about ****a-Kente the first time.
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Or perhaps war and the holocaust are dramatic events that put asses in the seats of theatres?

Every year dozens of romantic comedies are released. Is there some sort of underlying message that Hollywood is feeding us? No, hitches pay money for stupid feel good romantic movies. Point blank.
 
Edward-Snowden-HERO_V2.png
 
Hero. Absolutely no evidence he intentionally killed any innocent civilians. It's just the usual anti-war prop spewed by the left. Glad he killed as many of those scum bags as he did. True American hero. Srs
 
Let's see, he traveled halfway across the world to fight a completely illegal and immoral war and was one of the best at perpetrating this war.

How would we feel if, say, Russia invaded, say, Colombia, displaced about 10% of its population, killed almost 1% of its population, and then made a movie about one of its soldiers who REALLY contributed to that killing?

Personally, I'd find both the hypothetical and the real scenarios disgusting.

I'd rather see a film about The Baghdad Sniper. There's a million times more honor in sniping against the invaders and occupiers of your country, than for the aggressors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juba_(sniper)
 
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