Television American Primeval (2025)

[Kimchii]

I just say wow! As the series only has 6 episodes, I will leave only a short comment that sums it up quite well.

Gritty and brutal! This is how I imagined westerns not so long ago.

A strong 9 out of 10!

However, I have a question for you Americans. Mormons in the US, do they have a bad reputation today? When I became so interested to know more, Mormons have a history of being real bastards.

Mountain Meadows Massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Berserker13]

[REDACTED]

 

[Sycho Sid]

I just say wow! As the series only has 6 episodes, I will leave only a short comment that sums it up quite well.

Gritty and brutal! This is how I imagined westerns not so long ago.

A strong 9 out of 10!

However, I have a question for you Americans. Mormons in the US, do they have a bad reputation today? When I became so interested to know more, Mormons have a history of being real bastards.

Mountain Meadows Massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For the most part Mormons are just another religion now. If anything, they are the but of the joke anymore. We had a Mormon presidential candidate and his faith was not really a point of discussion.

I doubt most people know of their bloody history.

 

[Fedorgasm]

I haven't seen it yet and I'm pretty ignorant about who Brigham Young is and what he did, so it will be interesting.

I live in an area with a lot of Mormons and they're nice people but the religion is idiotic. I suspect many of them don't believe the bullshit stories Joseph Smith made up, but they play along so they can belong to the community. Which I can't even hate on them for. It's a great community.

Also, a few years ago the Mormon church leader declared that they wouldn't be called Mormons anymore, so you're supposed to call them LDS, for latter day saints. So I make sure to call them Mormons to their face constantly. If they correct me, then I know they're not the cool Mormons. If they don't correct me then we can party.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I just say wow! As the series only has 6 episodes, I will leave only a short comment that sums it up quite well.

Gritty and brutal! This is how I imagined westerns not so long ago.

A strong 9 out of 10!

However, I have a question for you Americans. Mormons in the US, do they have a bad reputation today? When I became so interested to know more, Mormons have a history of being real bastards.

Mountain Meadows Massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Being real bastards" was standard practice and describes just about every culture or religion back in the day. The Mormon friends and acquaintances I've known have been good people and in 'Murica, LDS folks have at worst a neutral reputation but probably more positive than anything else. Some casuals associate them with polygamy but that has apparently been forbidden since 1890 when Utah wanted to gain statehood.

 

[Kimchii]

"Being real bastards" was standard practice and describes just about every culture or religion back in the day. The Mormon friends and acquaintances I've known have been good people and in 'Murica, LDS folks have at worst a neutral reputation but probably more positive than anything else. Some casuals associate them with polygamy but that has apparently been forbidden since 1890 when Utah wanted to gain statehood.

Thanks for your reply.

You seem to be a cult person yourself? How can your view differ so markedly from PEW's survey from 2022 where Mormons actually take last place ahead of Muslims among others on the least liked list?

That being said, I like TV or movies that illustrate the more brutal world that faced all these emigrated people who were looking for a life better than the one they left. These wagon caravans that sought the west and were constantly exposed to attacks from man, nature and the climate. And then reading some comments by historians and what they have to say about the massacre that is in the TV series that this thread is about are not kind words.

" In modern times, the murders have been called an act of domestic terrorism in many works of literature, and is considered the largest act of domestic terrorism in United States history prior to the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Other descriptors include "the darkest deed of the nineteenth century" and "a crime that has no parallel in American history for atrocity. LDS historian Richard Turley called it "the worst event in Latter-day Saint history", and historian of the American West Will Bagley stated it was "the most brutal act of religious terrorism in America history" before the 2001 September 11 attacks. "

So your standard generalization that all cultures and religions behaved the same may not hold up very well. Therefore, I want to point out again that this particular strange cult has a bloody history behind it and are real "bastards".

 

[ChickenBrother]

You seem to be a cult person yourself?

Lol.

Thanks for your reply.

You seem to be a cult person yourself? How can your view differ so markedly from PEW's survey from 2022 where Mormons actually take last place ahead of Muslims among others on the least liked list?

That being said, I like TV or movies that illustrate the more brutal world that faced all these emigrated people who were looking for a life better than the one they left. These wagon caravans that sought the west and were constantly exposed to attacks from man, nature and the climate. And then reading some comments by historians and what they have to say about the massacre that is in the TV series that this thread is about are not kind words.

" In modern times, the murders have been called an act of domestic terrorism in many works of literature, and is considered the largest act of domestic terrorism in United States history prior to the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Other descriptors include "the darkest deed of the nineteenth century" and "a crime that has no parallel in American history for atrocity. LDS historian Richard Turley called it "the worst event in Latter-day Saint history", and historian of the American West Will Bagley stated it was "the most brutal act of religious terrorism in America history" before the 2001 September 11 attacks. "

So your standard generalization that all cultures and religions behaved the same may not hold up very well. Therefore, I want to point out again that this particular strange cult has a bloody history behind it and are real "bastards".

Please take your thread to the WR where it belongs. I try to stay out of there and don't care to debate this kind of shit online.

But I will say your survey shows a majority in 59% of respondents having a "neither/don't know enough to say" impression of LDSers which is consistent with "LDS folks have at worst a neutral reputation" which is what I said. I am surprised LDS rated lower than Muslims and that they had a higher "unfavorable" impression than "favorable" even if it was only by 10%. Other surprises to me in this survey are 1) Atheists like me also rating more unfavorable than favorable and 2) Jews rating the highest above Protestants and Catholics. Those results don't jive with my experience in U.S. cities I've lived and worked in, which includes Los Angeles metro, New York metro, Atlanta metro, Houston and St. Louis.

So your standard generalization that all cultures and religions behaved the same

I never said this. I said "being real bastards" was standard practice but obviously there are levels to that shit. From what I've read, the LDS church was indeed founded on some wacky AF beliefs but I try to regard and treat people based on their personal actions and attitudes rather than things their great great grandparents did.

 

[MDoza]

I just say wow! As the series only has 6 episodes, I will leave only a short comment that sums it up quite well.

Gritty and brutal! This is how I imagined westerns not so long ago.

A strong 9 out of 10!

However, I have a question for you Americans. Mormons in the US, do they have a bad reputation today? When I became so interested to know more, Mormons have a history of being real bastards.

Mountain Meadows Massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Historically, I don’t think anyone cares about them slaughtering Natives, because virtually every group of settlers did it, so no one judges them alone.

Modern day, they have a strange reputation. Many Christians do not consider them to be Christians. They are more strict about their beliefs and practices, which has caused their communities to become insular. In my experience, they tend to be kind people as a result of their faith, but a core tenet of Mormonism is “every member is a missionary”, which tends to affect their relationships with non-Mormons. They do not drink, smoke, or curse, which is simply at odds with many social aspects of American society. It’s hard to form a relationship with someone who doesn’t socialize in a normal manner, and always wants to convert you.

 

[europe1]

The series kinda has a "try-hard" attitude to its grittiness. I mean, they literally encounter a family of rapist Frenchmen who look like deformed mutants. By that point its more silly than grimdark. Or how the guy who got half-scalped never washes the blood away even days after. Or how the visuals are always gray and overcast. Its all very try-hard.

But on a character-level its surprisingly competent. The series is kinda saved by some solid character arches. Even though the grimdark worldbuilding is pretty stupid.

 

[Mujeriego]

For the most part Mormons are just another religion now. If anything, they are the but of the joke anymore.

No one takes them seriously. And they arent a violent group so nobody cares.
And they are still the butt of the joke.

 

[RollSonnenRoll]

The series kinda has a "try-hard" attitude to its grittiness. I mean, they literally encounter a family of rapist Frenchmen who look like deformed mutants. By that point its more silly than grimdark. Or how the guy who got half-scalped never washes the blood away even days after. Or how the visuals are always gray and overcast. Its all very try-hard.

But on a character-level its surprisingly competent. The series is kinda saved by some solid character arches. Even though the grimdark worldbuilding is pretty stupid.

That was the only part I didnt like. It was over the top that they looked like monsters out of no where and of course they were rapists too! I liked the series a lot overall but I felt the first two episodes were a little torture porn-ish. It was just scene after scene of violence and blood with very little character development or story. Just violence for the sake of violence. It settled down in the 3rd episode though and we got into the story, which was simple but really good with some great acting to tie it all together.

I really liked Two Moons and thought she stole the show. She was so expressive with just her eyes and body language

 

[Fedorgasm]

I finally finished it and thought it was really good.

Now I'm going to read up on how much of it was true.

 

[w00t]

Not a bad show, not as forgettable as most of the slop Netflix chooses to put out. It didn't bore the fuck out of me, so that's a plus. The wolf scene was stupid as fuck though. Can we stop portraying wolves as if they got the T-Virus.

and this new layout is a total eyesore.

 

[Madmick]

The series kinda has a "try-hard" attitude to its grittiness. I mean, they literally encounter a family of rapist Frenchmen who look like deformed mutants. By that point its more silly than grimdark. Or how the guy who got half-scalped never washes the blood away even days after. Or how the visuals are always gray and overcast. Its all very try-hard.

But on a character-level its surprisingly competent. The series is kinda saved by some solid character arches. Even though the grimdark worldbuilding is pretty stupid.

Agreed. The West was treated as cartoonishly savage, and the Mormons as cartoonishly villainous. That part with the Frenchmen seemed to be an homage to both Deliverance and The Hills Have Eyes when neither belonged anywhere near a mid-19th century western historical drama. Abish wasn't a realistic character. Joseph's descent into madness was an awkward vignette that was excruciatingly boring because the nature of it was terrible for film, or at least terribly handled, because I kept thinking it might be interesting if I was reading a novel where the interiority of his thoughts made up 90% of the time we spent with him. The sole reason we were made to suffer it was to realize its overwrought, tragic, ironic finale...hollow and pointless as it was (I don't think the writers realized how little metaphorical payoff there was). Taylor Kitch's jaded, broken action hero is a tired cliche. The Army Captain was invigorating until we had to hear his self-pitying diary meditations.

Betty Gilpin as Sara and Jai Courtney as Virgil Cutter were the saving graces. They were the only characters that felt grounded, and not out of place.

Top tier cast and budget. Expected more from Peter Berg. Disappointing.

 

[I Am Legion]

I can only speak from where I live, as we don't have many Mormons. But we take the South Park view. A dumb as shit scam. At least the older religions have that age factor where it is harder to fact check. But next to Jehovah Witness, it is pretty brutal. You can't have religions that predict dates for the end of the world, and when that date comes and goes, just keep changing it. Besides Jesus, Abraham and Buddha, a lot of these other religion starters have scam artist questionable pasts.

 

[Streeter]

Mormons are some of the nicest people I ever met . I spent alot of time around Mormons an can definitley say they are the opposite of a villainous people lol... they literally fall over themselves trying to be kind to people .

I got no clue what they did or didn't do during the meadows massacre... But scared people do stupid things.


Great series though was better than Horizon imo

 

[SuperAlly]

The series kinda has a "try-hard" attitude to its grittiness. I mean, they literally encounter a family of rapist Frenchmen who look like deformed mutants. By that point its more silly than grimdark. Or how the guy who got half-scalped never washes the blood away even days after. Or how the visuals are always gray and overcast. Its all very try-hard.

But on a character-level its surprisingly competent. The series is kinda saved by some solid character arches. Even though the grimdark worldbuilding is pretty stupid.

It's an excellent show and this critique is unironically try hard

 

[Berserker13]

I can only speak from where I live, as we don't have many Mormons. But we take the South Park view. A dumb as shit scam. At least the older religions have that age factor where it is harder to fact check. But next to Jehovah Witness, it is pretty brutal. You can't have religions that predict dates for the end of the world, and when that date comes and goes, just keep changing it. Besides Jesus, Abraham and Buddha, a lot of these other religion starters have scam artist questionable pasts.

OG goal post movers

 

[shunyata]

I finally finished it and thought it was really good.

Now I'm going to read up on how much of it was true.

I watched it and it was good overall as theater, but it was actually less gruesome than the real Mountain Meadows massacre.

The show makes it seem like the attack was a blitz and over in an hour.


Best information is that while the Mormon militia did attack while pretending to be natives, and they did decide to kill everyone when the cover was blown, the wagon train was armed and set up a defensive perimeter.

A siege ensued for five days. The wagon train was running low on water and supplies and the Mormons sent in officers to negotiate a surrender. The wagon train accepted, and the armed men laid down their guns and went with the Mormon officers.

A short distance away from the wagon train the Mormons opened fire on all the men who had surrendered. Then they murdered everyone else, women, elders, children old enough that they were deemed a security risk for their ability to tell.

18 children were alive near the end of the hostilities, the oldest, a girl around 10-12 years old was then shot dead in front of the rest after the militia decided she was old enough to tell on them.

17 children under the age of 8 were the only survivors and were taken in by local Mormon families.

When the US army came back to investigate in 1859 they recovered many of the surviving children and transported them back to relatives in Arkansas. An Army officer noted that were in a state of terrible neglect, underfed, unclothed, covered in mud, and with obvious eye infections.

 

[volodya]

I watched it and it was good overall as theater, but it was actually less gruesome than the real Mountain Meadows massacre.

The show makes it seem like the attack was a blitz and over in an hour.


Best information is that while the Mormon militia did attack while pretending to be natives, and they did decide to kill everyone when the cover was blown, the wagon train was armed and set up a defensive perimeter.

A siege ensued for five days. The wagon train was running low on water and supplies and the Mormons sent in officers to negotiate a surrender. The wagon train accepted, and the armed men laid down their guns and went with the Mormon officers.

A short distance away from the wagon train the Mormons opened fire on all the men who had surrendered. Then they murdered everyone else, women, elders, children old enough that they were deemed a security risk for their ability to tell.

18 children were alive near the end of the hostilities, the oldest, a girl around 10-12 years old was then shot dead in front of the rest after the militia decided she was old enough to tell on them.

17 children under the age of 8 were the only survivors and were taken in by local Mormon families.

When the US army came back to investigate in 1859 they recovered many of the surviving children and transported them back to relatives in Arkansas. An Army officer noted that were in a state of terrible neglect, underfed, unclothed, covered in mud, and with obvious eye infections.

Them Mormons seem like real jerks