Alternative Pyramid Theories

[Supereem]

Jganer has destroyed this thread hahaha.

 

[Agent Mulder's Hair]

I sometimes wonder if they had a fundamentally different set of technology that wasnt necessarily more advanced than ours on the whole but was a different track of understanding on manipulation of basic elements. They may have been pre 20th century advanced or less in general but it seems obvious that on some level they had some abilities that we just haven't explored properly until now. Just seems a totally different lineage of technology, a totally different path.

This is how I've always seen it. Not necessarily more advanced technology or understanding , just different

 

[andnowweknow]

This is how I've always seen it. Not necessarily more advanced technology or understanding , just different

Here's my conundrum on the pre history advanced civilization thing...

On one hand, the Holocene (the current geological epoch we have grown up in over the last 10,000 or so years) is the longest unbroken interglacial period on record in the last 250,000 years so I see that as a point of argument in favor of our recent advancement being special because of special conditions. We know that climatological concerns are at least tangentially the biggest stumbling blocks to advancement.

The other thing that may have prevented human advancement could be the sheer nature of the predatory megafauna. Some of the super predators that existed (short face bear, American lion, other big cats, etc that all went extinct) might have been so overwhelming that we simply couldn't get past survival mode and staying out of certain locales just to avoid confrontation with these animals.

On the other hand, we have the greatest extinction event in the past 5 million years on planet Earth taking place right in the backyard of what we consider our extreme near prehistory largely happening between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago. And yes, the human overkill hypothesis is ridiculous when we know the exact time period where all these animals went extinct was accompanied by extreme climate occilations. This lends some reasoning as to why humans have no record to speak of regarding what happened prior to the extinction event.

To me this is pretty obvious, humans likely suffered extreme hardship with serious population decline while these other animals went away.

My conclusion is, deep history is complicated and I'm leaning in the direction of a few alpha as fuck short faced bears building the pyramid as a tomb...but not for Khufu, that's silly

 

[Nononononotorious]

jgarner, kudos for being the only bastion of sanity in a topic swarmed with ''i want to believe'' uneducated morons. Don't get too worked up tho, it's sadly just a byproduct of the era of widespread Internet access: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/post-fact

jgarner?

 

[DoomPatrol]

see @BearGrounds post #361, it specifically describes tools necessary OUTSIDE THE TOOL RECORD.

What do you think the Great Pyramid was built for or as? I assumed that since your POV is solely derived from Egyptological orthodoxy that you would agree with their main tenet of the entire theory on the pyramid which is that it was built as a TOMB for Khufu. The entire process of dating the thing relies on it being a tomb, including how long it took to build (20 years is derived from the approximate lifetime of Khufu, literally nothing else). You actually almost have no choice but to say that at this point because all the other nonsense you are saying revolves around iti being a TOMB.

I have plenty of choices to say that it was for. It's certainly a leading theory and makes perfect sense as some sort of devotion to their leader and his supremacy. Regardless of their intentions, the timeline is easier to determine.

How did I know you'd continue to ignore my requests to debate the math? It's almost like you just enjoy hyperbole and hate real science.

 

[facePuncher7]

Every one of these documentaries I've seen displays a complete lack of basic construction knowledge.

It's not hard to create millimetre accurate structures and level surfaces, even without modern construction tools, but these dolts keep espousing the amazing feat of construction that those things are.

"They would have required very advanced tools to achieve this kind of accuracy".

It's called a straight edge.

"The floor is remarkably level, to within centimetres, a feat that modern building would envy".

It's called water and/or light. That level of accuracy would get you sued these days too.

 

[andnowweknow]

I have plenty of choices to say that it was for. It's certainly a leading theory and makes perfect sense as some sort of devotion to their leader and his supremacy. Regardless of their intentions, the timeline is easier to determine.

How did I know you'd continue to ignore my requests to debate the math? It's almost like you just enjoy hyperbole and hate real science.

But you won't say what it is...and again, the timeline is based on it being a tomb for Khufu, NOTHING ELSE. And "Devotion for their leader"...wtf are you talking about? The story is that Khufu built it for himself (IE, he supposedly commissioned it).

And you posted a link that contradicted your argument (no, I'm not gonna explain how) that it was done by tools in the orthodox model.

You didn't post any math.

 

[facePuncher7]

Even with the water thing wasn't the quarry a long ways away? Wouldn't it take an unbelievable amount of water to help cope with friction to drag a single stone across the desert? 2.3 million blocks and all they needed was wet sand, not buying it. I'm an engineer by the way although I can't say that I am an expert on wood digging into sand physics I just think it's unlikely to move all those blocks in any reasonable time frame just by wetting the sand.

Also you make a good point in that ok sure assume that works for pulling the blocks, now tell me how they positioned them so precisely. I doubt we could do much better with 2015 surveying technology let alone whatever the hell these folks had. What did they reference to even think of setting up this geometry and positioning? It would honestly be an incredible feat for todays technology.

The level of accuracy is just astonishing. I mean imagine dragging 2.3 million blocks across the desert and for EACH one of them you not only drag it around but some dick head if whipping you telling you to pull it an extra millimetre this way...no that way...little more...ok too much back the other way...

On the topic of restoration, fuck that. Preservation? Sure do what you can to keep it in tact as long as you can but no way do you dare 'restore' it.

That level of accuracy is capable without modern surveying techniques, and nowadays the level of accuracy we can achieve is unnecessary for most applications. You're talking double digit microns.

I'm a surveyor, specialising in high accuracy laser scanning and software, but I've also done a lot of very old school stake and hammer survey work.

 

[DoomPatrol]

But you won't say what it is...and again, the timeline is based on it being a tomb for Khufu, NOTHING ELSE. And "Devotion for their leader"...wtf are you talking about? The story is that Khufu built it for himself (IE, he supposedly commissioned it).

And you posted a link that contradicted your argument (no, I'm not gonna explain how) that it was done by tools in the orthodox model.

You didn't post any math.

The link I posted clearly shows the math for a 20 year build. It disputes your hyperbole that it couldn't have been done. Again if you read it, which you clearly didn't.

I've never argued for what it's purpose is for, so why you're latching on to that is beyond me. Maybe it's the fact that you don't want to argue math and need some pathetic distraction.

The link I posted makes the assertion that the build was most likely done with wood and water to create fracture lines in the quarries or that they used other primitive tools. What it doesn't say is that there's some lost advanced technology they used. Don't twist their words.

 

[BearGrounds]

Jganer has destroyed this thread hahaha.

Instead of coming back in here to wave pom poms like some cheerleader, how about you address my rebuttal to your post?

 

[JoelThomas]

Every one of these documentaries I've seen displays a complete lack of basic construction knowledge.

It's not hard to create millimetre accurate structures and level surfaces, even without modern construction tools, but these dolts keep espousing the amazing feat of construction that those things are.

"They would have required very advanced tools to achieve this kind of accuracy".

It's called a straight edge.

"The floor is remarkably level, to within centimetres, a feat that modern building would envy".

It's called water and/or light. That level of accuracy would get you sued these days too.

Uh. It is not necessarily complex to create structures of such accuracy, but--especially given the scale and materials--it is very very very difficult, not even taking into account that they were supposedly using crap tools. The lack of basic construction knowledge is most evident in the accepted theories. The theory that the Great Pyramid was built in no more than 20 years is a logistical joke. They had no phones, no cheap paper for stacks of payroll slips, contact info, and photocopies of the plans, no mass or even conceivable personal transit. (Where's Jim? He knows how wide the rabbet cut into block 3715G is supposed to be. Fuck, is that him, over there, by the outhouses? It's going to take me 30 minutes to climb down there and back. Think I can surf the camel down?) So the absurd quantity of men needed to work (around the clock) for this task are gathered, managed, and deployed from the site using *face to face communication*; and are mostly engaged in absolutely brutal efforts to quarry, hew, and stack monolithic block up to 450 feet in the air to a perfectly shaped pyramid... in 20 years?! If you've worked on even the smallest construction site, you know that even well paid, decades experienced tradesmen can barely be reigned into tiny groups to build completely forgiving structures with modern tools and easily replaced materials.

It doesn't really matter when it was built or by whom, as concerns construction techniques--they invariably must have been some form of god.

 

[facePuncher7]

Uh. It is not necessarily complex to create structures of such accuracy, but--especially given the scale and materials--it is very very very difficult, not even taking into account that they were supposedly using crap tools. The lack of basic construction knowledge is most evident in the accepted theories. The theory that the Great Pyramid was built in no more than 20 years is a logistical joke. They had no phones, no cheap paper for stacks of payroll slips, contact info, and photocopies of the plans, no mass or even conceivable personal transit. (Where's Jim? He knows how wide the rabbet cut into block 3715G is supposed to be. Fuck, is that him, over there, by the outhouses? It's going to take me 30 minutes to climb down there and back. Think I can surf the camel down?) So the absurd quantity of men needed to work (around the clock) for this task are gathered, managed, and deployed from the site using *face to face communication*; and are mostly engaged in absolutely brutal efforts to quarry, hew, and stack monolithic block up to 450 feet in the air to a perfectly shaped pyramid... in 20 years?! If you've worked on even the smallest construction site, you know that even well paid, decades experienced tradesmen can barely be reigned into tiny groups to build completely forgiving structures with modern tools and easily replaced materials.

It doesn't really matter when it was built or by whom, as concerns construction techniques--they invariably must have been some form of god.

I'll grant that it is an impressive feat, I'm just commenting on the angle these documentaries tend to approach it from, selling simple components of it as great mystery and achievement.

 

[MicroBrew]

Have you even looked at all the different megalithic sites and their locations and the difficulty involved with moving stones around in places like machu picchu ? The time it would take to construct these sites? It's quite clear that primitive man built upon these ancient obliterated structures.


View attachment 223613

Do you share the same view on who/how the Pantheon and other structures in Ancient Greece were built? The Roman viaducts ?

People had a lot of time , and some techniques simply got lost.

 

[andnowweknow]

I'll grant that it is an impressive feat, I'm just commenting on the angle these documentaries tend to approach it from, selling simple components of it as great mystery and achievement.

I think the general issue is that this is an incredible understatement. 20 years from start to finish today would be a huge stretch even if the custom construction apparatus' for constructing it were already built...which they aren't.

Again, it would be by far the most expensive single construction project in history.

 

[RIPWarrior]

Do you share the same view on who/how the Pantheon and other structures in Ancient Greece were built? The Roman viaducts ?

People had a lot of time , and some techniques simply got lost.

Are you looking at the pictures? Watch Brien Foerster's videos. You will see that there is two types of construction. One that is insanely accurate and the other not so much.

The Egyptians along with the Inca and Romans created impressive structures and works of art over time but they did not create the megalithic structures and artifacts around the world. These megalithic sites were destroyed and most of it is completely missing. Primitive man did not recreate the stone work of these megalithic structures and artifacts. Every wall would be polygonal with no mortar.

 

[MicroBrew]

Are you looking at the pictures? Watch Brien Foerster's videos. You will see that there is two types of construction. One that is insanely accurate and the other not so much.

The Egyptians along with the Inca and Romans created impressive structures and works of art over time but they did not create the megalithic structures and artifacts around the world. These megalithic sites were destroyed and most of it is completely missing. Primitive man did not recreate the stone work of these megalithic structures and artifacts. Every wall would be polygonal with no mortar.

The reason for the difference and lower quality of the bottom walls and the top walls can be attrobuted to lack of resources, change in leadership, loss of skill , downturn in society etc.. There are modern day comparisons: Some American D.I.Y and industrial products from decades back were of superior quality to some of the stuff being peddled today.

 

[RIPWarrior]

The reason for the difference and lower quality of the bottom walls and the top walls can be attrobuted to lack of resources, change in leadership, loss of skill , downturn in society etc.. There are modern day comparisons: Some American D.I.Y and industrial products from decades back were of superior quality to some of the stuff being peddled today.

You're joking right? The insanely precise structures all over the world all of a sudden went to shit when they were not even half way there? You're ignoring large fragments found in odd locations too. It is quite clear these places were destroyed and later built upon.

 

[MicroBrew]

You're joking right? The insanely precise structures all over the world all of a sudden went to shit when they were not even half way there? You're ignoring large fragments found in odd locations too. It is quite clear these places were destroyed and later built upon.

They didn't all go to shit at the same time.

 

[RIPWarrior]

They didn't all go to shit at the same time.

All at the same point of construction? It is painfully obviously those megalithic structures were badly destroyed.

 

[MicroBrew]

All at the same point of construction? It is painfully obviously those megalithic structures were badly destroyed.

No I mean the downturn civilizations took didn't all happen at the same time, except maybe the fall of some civilzations in the Near East during the bronze age , but that could be for the same reasons, i.e. maruding/invading steppe pastoralists .