Alternative Pyramid Theories

[DoomPatrol]

I never said anything remotely like that, and im not sure anyone in this thread has seriously suggested anything but human beings built the structures on the plateau at Giza.

Answer me this, since you're an engineer (and hopefully capable of some plain logic)...Why does the Greenwich Observatory, which was specifically cardinally aligned, deviate more from true north than Khufu's pyramid that was made by people who supposedly didn't have the wheel? It's simple stuff, right?

So why are you saying stupid shit about how they couldn't have aligned it correctly? If no special helped them do it, and they're standing right fucking there. Then clearly they did it. And you're acting like I'm the troll. What are you suggesting then?

The meridian building made it pretty close and they probably said good enough when they continued with construction. Maybe the Egyptians tried harder to align it more closely because they cared more?

Unless you're trying to say that somebody helped them accomplish this, then they accomplished this. Since week did Egyptians not have the wheel? The wheel goes back to 4500 BC, well before the pyramids, the earliest constructed in 2630 BC. The wheel is proven to have into the area during the same time frame as the one in pyramid of Giza. That doesn't mean they didn't have it, that just means that's the earliest we can prove they did. The had boats and pyramids, so I find it incredibly unlikely that they didn't understand that round things roll.

Why don't you just admit what you're really trying to say and we can have an honest discussion.

 

[andnowweknow]

So why are you saying stupid shit about how they couldn't have aligned it correctly? If no special helped them do it, and they're standing right fucking there. Then clearly they did it. And you're acting like I'm the troll. What are you suggesting then?

The meridian building made it pretty close and they probably said good enough when they continued with construction. Maybe the Egyptians tried harder to align it more closely because they cared more?

Unless you're trying to say that somebody helped them accomplish this, then they accomplished this. Since week did Egyptians not have the wheel? The wheel goes back to 4500 BC, well before the pyramids, the earliest constructed in 2630 BC. The wheel is proven to have into the area during the same time frame as the one in pyramid of Giza. That doesn't mean they didn't have it, that just means that's the earliest we can prove they did. The had boats and pyramids, so I find it incredibly unlikely that they didn't understand that round things roll.

Why don't you just admit what you're really trying to say and we can have an honest discussion.

What am I really trying to say? Why don't you skip the bullshit and tell me what I'm thinking?

And you should know damn well the great pyramid being more accurately aligned than the meridian building says a hell of a lot more than "they just had more time on their hands". If that is your assertion, nobody should have ever let you have an engineering degree.

 

[DoomPatrol]

What am I really trying to say? Why don't you skip the bullshit and tell me what I'm thinking?

And you should know damn well the great pyramid being more accurately aligned than the meridian building says a hell of a lot more than "they just had more time on their hands". If that is your assertion, nobody should have ever let you have an engineering degree.

It looks like you're trying to make a claim that aliens helped them while you're insulting my engineering credentials, which would make you insane. So I'm asking you. What are you suggesting? It's not a hard question to answer. The Egyptians were fully capable of aligning something to north with the stars and basic math. If you think they couldn't have done it, then tell me how you think it got done. Otherwise, the results speak for themselves. They clearly aligned it to north, so they were clearly capable of it. Unless you want to suggest aliens/time travelers/magic. Is that what you're suggesting? You're right. I never took a class on alien engineering. All my engineering courses and professional experiences are based on human beings doing things. I don't know shit about alien technology to build a large mound on the desert.

Being more closely aligned just means they cared enough to get it close. You can be incredibly precise with the right time/resources and math tricks.

Oh, what type of formal education do you have in engineering or construction? Since you're apparently so well versed on engineering limitations from several thousand years ago and all.

 

[andnowweknow]

It looks like you're trying to make a claim that aliens helped them while you're insulting my engineering credentials, which would make you insane. So I'm asking you. What are you suggesting? It's not a hard question to answer. The Egyptians were fully capable of aligning something to north with the stars and basic math. If you think they couldn't have done it, then tell me how you think it got done. Otherwise, the results speak for themselves. They clearly aligned it to north, so they were clearly capable of it. Unless you want to suggest aliens/time travelers/magic. Is that what you're suggesting? You're right. I never took a class on alien engineering. All my engineering courses and professional experiences are based on human beings doing things. I don't know shit about alien technology to build a large mound on the desert.

Being more closely aligned just means they cared enough to get it close. You can be incredibly precise with the right time/resources and math tricks.

Oh, what type of formal education do you have in engineering or construction? Since you're apparently so well versed on engineering limitations from several thousand years ago and all.

If you actually read even a small portion of my posts in this thread, you have utterly horrible reading comprehension if you took from it that I thought aliens helped. I've actually derided those sorts of ideas at every turn. Humans are the culprit for what we see at Giza, the orthodox representation of how, when and why is the issue...

And still, aligning a 14 acre footprint monument goes quite a bit beyond "they just took the time, that's all..."...No, that's not all. It speaks to a sophistication well beyond elbow grease, copper chisels and stone mallets, and a 20 year timeline of construction which is utterly ridiculous.

 

[DoomPatrol]

If you actually read even a small portion of my posts in this thread, you have utterly horrible reading comprehension if you took from it that I thought aliens helped. I've actually derided those sorts of ideas at every turn. Humans are the culprit for what we see at Giza, the orthodox representation of how, when and why is the issue...

I have no idea what you think because you refuse to simply answer it like a normal person in a conversation. So you're leaving me to pure conjecture. We know when Giza was most likely built and how. Tell me then what the fuck you're trying to argue regarding the way it's oriented. It's simple. Either they did it or they didn't. You've been arguing that they didn't for the last several posts. I've made my stance on this crystal clear but you can't give a straight answer for shit. Be a fucking man and make your stance known.

 

[andnowweknow]

I have no idea what you think because you refuse to simply answer it like a normal person in a conversation. So you're leaving me to pure conjecture. We know when Giza was most likely built and how. Tell me then what the fuck you're trying to argue regarding the way it's oriented. It's simple. Either they did it or they didn't. You've been arguing that they didn't for the last several posts. I've made my stance on this crystal clear but you can't give a straight answer for shit. Be a fucking man and make your stance known.

I've posted EXACTLY what I think about a dozen times in this thread...In brief, the orthodox representation of how, when and why is almost completely bereft of credibility for the litany of reasons I've described. There is zero proof it was ever a tomb, the basis for Khufu building it is hilarious and the 20 year time scale is an utter joke.

 

[SammyPops]

Thse are clearly a hoax, do not exist, similar to the moon landing, round earth, and the holocaust.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

@JonesBones slapped TS around like it was nothing.

 

[DoomPatrol]

I've posted EXACTLY what I think about a dozen times in this thread...In brief, the orthodox representation of how, when and why is almost completely bereft of credibility for the litany of reasons I've described. There is zero proof it was ever a tomb, the basis for Khufu building it is hilarious and the 20 year time scale is an utter joke.

You've ignored my question several times now while being a complete arrogant prick. Let me ask you one more fucking time.

If you think that the Egyptians were incapable of orientating the Giza pyramid so precisely, then how do you think it was done?

I haven't asked anything about a tomb or a 20 year time table. I asked you like five fucking times that specific question, which is the entire basis of conversation for your unwarranted insulting of my education and knowledge. So just stop beating around the bush and answer the fucking question. It's really simple. You went well out of your way to talk about how it's so precise. WHO THE FUCK DID IT THEN? You're the one talking shit about them being unable to do this. So how do you think it was aligned?

While you at it, why don't you answer my other question regarding what type of formal education and professional experience do you have with anything related to the topic at hand?


https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn174-pyramid-precision/

The precision is easily explained with using stars and math.

 

[JonesBones]

@JonesBones slapped TS around like it was nothing.

I wonder if like in a thousand years future humans will look at some of our current creations and say no way we were capable of that. lol. Must be aliens. We needed aliens to build the Hadron Collider for example.

 

[andnowweknow]

You've ignored my question several times now while being a complete arrogant prick. Let me ask you one more fucking time.

If you think that the Egyptians were incapable of orientating the Giza pyramid so precisely, then how do you think it was done?

I haven't asked anything about a tomb or a 20 year time table. I asked you like five fucking times that specific question, which is the entire basis of conversation for your unwarranted insulting of my education and knowledge. So just stop beating around the bush and answer the fucking question. It's really simple. You went well out of your way to talk about how it's so precise. WHO THE FUCK DID IT THEN? You're the one talking shit about them being unable to do this. So how do you think it was aligned?

While you at it, why don't you answer my other question regarding what type of formal education and professional experience do you have with anything related to the topic at hand?


https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn174-pyramid-precision/

The precision is easily explained with using stars and math.

Your reading comprehension is just awful. I never said the Egyptians were incapable of building anything either. I do not believe it was built as a tomb for Khufu, and I do not necessarily believe it was built when we are told it was built. Your brain isn't computing theh conversation, this has nothing to do with how you align a building, it's about actually doing it...which they did.

This is all based on your completely wrong assumption at the outset that I was some "aliens built the pyramids" purveyor. I'm not, you made a bunk assumption and now you're in piss and vinegar mode over it. We both agree aliens didn't build it, you can let that go.

Now that it is all cleared up and we're both on the same page that aliens didn't build (or help) build the great pyramid and that human beings clearly built it, it's pretty much a given to just drop your line that I somehow believe the Egyptians couldn't do it. Someone did it, it's sitting there for everyone to see. What's also clear is that it wasn't built using the toolset orthodox egyptology said built it, that is literally impossible.

 

[andnowweknow]

@JonesBones slapped TS around like it was nothing.

well, he probably just confirmed what you already thought before reading his posts, making you also wrong. You can be wrong together

 

[DoomPatrol]

Your reading comprehension is just awful. I never said the Egyptians were incapable of building anything either. I do not believe it was built as a tomb for Khufu, and I do not necessarily believe it was built when we are told it was built. Your brain isn't computing theh conversation, this has nothing to do with how you align a building, it's about actually doing it...which they did.

This is all based on your completely wrong assumption at the outset that I was some "aliens built the pyramids" purveyor. I'm not, you made a bunk assumption and now you're in piss and vinegar mode over it. We both agree aliens didn't build it, you can let that go.

Now that it is all cleared up and we're both on the same page that aliens didn't build (or help) build the great pyramid and that human beings clearly built it, it's pretty much a given to just drop your line that I somehow believe the Egyptians couldn't do it. Someone did it, it's sitting there for everyone to see. What's also clear is that it wasn't built using the toolset orthodox egyptology said built it, that is literally impossible.

My assumption was that because you said several times to me that they couldn't be that precise, that you would have to believe something else had to do it. If they didn't do it with the tools available, then how did it happen? You're the one who's been arguing with me over their ability to be that precise. I made this exact same sentiment three posts ago and you kept arguing with me. I didn't just say aliens, I asked you what you thought happened if they didn't do it with the tools available? Aliens or time travelers with tools are the only other options I can think of.

The tools that Egyptians had were clearly good enough to build the pyramids and align them properly. Using the stars and circles/straight lines with the right math, they could easily orientate the construction correctly. It's not that hard to be precise. You're also the clown who said they didn't even have wheels when these people were inventing math, using fucking boats and building huge pyramids. Seriously, these guys figured out how to float on water, but you're going to say they didn't have the wheel. How seriously am I supposed to take your opinion on their capabilities when you don't even think they are smart enough to see that round things can roll?

 

[andnowweknow]

My assumption was that because you said several times to me that they couldn't be that precise, that you would have to believe something else had to do it. If they didn't do it with the tools available, then how did it happen? You're the one who's been arguing with me over their ability to be that precise. I made this exact same sentiment three posts ago and you kept arguing with me. I didn't just say aliens, I asked you what you thought happened if they didn't do it with the tools available? Aliens or time travelers with tools are the only other options I can think of.

The tools that Egyptians had were clearly good enough to build the pyramids and align them properly. Using the stars and circles/straight lines with the right math, they could easily orientate the construction correctly. It's not that hard to be precise. You're also the clown who said they didn't even have wheels when these people were inventing math, using fucking boats and building huge pyramids. Seriously, these guys figured out how to float on water, but you're going to say they didn't have the wheel. How seriously am I supposed to take your opinion on their capabilities when you don't even think they are smart enough to see that round things can roll?

When you say it was "aliens or time travelers" as the only other option, it shows me how ridiculous continuing this is. If you knew anything about why you believe it was built when you think it was built you'd understand what I mean. But you don't have any clue why it's dated to circa 2500 from how you are discussing this.

The tools that were used are not a part of t he historical record, even if it was done in 2500bc under the reign of khufu.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

My assumption was that because you said several times to me that they couldn't be that precise, that you would have to believe something else had to do it. If they didn't do it with the tools available, then how did it happen? You're the one who's been arguing with me over their ability to be that precise. I made this exact same sentiment three posts ago and you kept arguing with me. I didn't just say aliens, I asked you what you thought happened if they didn't do it with the tools available? Aliens or time travelers with tools are the only other options I can think of.

The tools that Egyptians had were clearly good enough to build the pyramids and align them properly. Using the stars and circles/straight lines with the right math, they could easily orientate the construction correctly. It's not that hard to be precise. You're also the clown who said they didn't even have wheels when these people were inventing math, using fucking boats and building huge pyramids. Seriously, these guys figured out how to float on water, but you're going to say they didn't have the wheel. How seriously am I supposed to take your opinion on their capabilities when you don't even think they are smart enough to see that round things can roll?

He thinks that ancient humans reached some crazy heights of technology in prehistory and that most of the evidence has been lost.

He believes that mankind has reached these peaks numerous times in the past 250K years before collapsing and all the evidence being lost.

 

[PhitePhan]

I don't understand some of the responses here. So far, TS has said clearly he does not believe the generally accepted view of how the pyramids were built.

Instead of responding directly to his assertion (too short of a time frame, lack of necessary tools, etc), detractors are requiring TS to present a better theory.... likely so that then they can deride that theory by referring to orthodoxy and "consensus." What a very dirty tactic, and one that does little to further productive discussion.

TS doesn't need to present an alternative theory on how the pyramids were built, he only needs to show how the orthodox view is lacking. He made straight forward claims, it is odd that nobody has mounted much of a rebuttal outside of shifting burden of proof, name calling, etc...

 

[DoomPatrol]

When you say it was "aliens or time travelers" as the only other option, it shows me how ridiculous continuing this is. If you knew anything about why you believe it was built when you think it was built you'd understand what I mean. But you don't have any clue why it's dated to circa 2500 from how you are discussing this.

The tools that were used are not a part of t he historical record, even if it was done in 2500bc under the reign of khufu.

Of course they had techniques that are probably not recorded. That's way different than you acting like they weren't capable at all, which is exactly how you've been acting. There is no other option than aliens or time travelers based on your argument earlier. If you want to change your stance now, that's on you not me. I've been clearly making the case that they used techniques that we don't necessarily know, and you've been arguing with me about that, so what rational person would assume you believe the very thing you're arguing against?

I know why it's dated the way it is. It's called archaeology. They study the area and make accurate determinations. The pyramids may have taken a little longer or started a little earlier/later, but historians have it down pretty well unless you're a conspiracy nut.

Answer this one question.... is what @PolishHeadlock said below the case? Do you believe that humans have reached crazy technological achievements in the past, but we lost the evidence? Or do you think they had ancient techniques that would make sense for the era that we just don't know about yet?

He thinks that ancient humans reached some crazy heights of technology in prehistory and that most of the evidence has been lost.

He believes that mankind has reached these peaks numerous times in the past 250K years before collapsing and all the evidence being lost.

I really hope that after all the attitude he's given me, he doesn't actually believe that.

 

[andnowweknow]

He thinks that ancient humans reached some crazy heights of technology in prehistory and that most of the evidence has been lost.

He believes that mankind has reached these peaks numerous times in the past 250K years before collapsing and all the evidence being lost.

exaggerated and not exactly true, nor do I believe humans have ever necessarily reached the heights we have today, though in some arenas they have been more "advanced". I believe humans could have done a lot of advancing that is unrecorded, but everyone agrees that's a possibility so nobody is making news on that front.

Regarding Ancient Egypt, it makes zero sense to go from nomadic existence to the great pyramid at Giza in about 300 years. And yes, to some extent or another, the general premise that shit hit the fan about 12k years ago with global events book ending the Younger Dryas probably explains a lot of why "history" just "begins" around 6,500BC in terms of organized civilization yet we find ourselves (homo sapien sapien) beging at least 180k years old. The fact we have almost zero historical accounting of what humans were doing culturally prior to Sumer and Egypt is unsettling at best.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I don't understand some of the responses here. So far, TS has said clearly he does not believe the generally accepted view of how the pyramids were built.

Instead of responding directly to his assertion (too short of a time frame, lack of necessary tools, etc), detractors are requiring TS to present a better theory.... likely so that then they can deride that theory by referring to orthodoxy and "consensus." What a very dirty tactic, and one that does little to further productive discussion.

TS doesn't need to present an alternative theory on how the pyramids were built, he only needs to show how the orthodox view is lacking. He made straight forward claims, it is odd that nobody has mounted much of a rebuttal outside of shifting burden of proof, name calling, etc...

How can you knock down a theory without presenting a better alternative?

 

[sangreporsangre]

Lmao I knew it would happen in here eventually. TS' pyramid threads end up becoming like tipping threads with all the insults and flaming. I love it.