All Time GOAT poll

[Deleted member 110072]

Its not just the PEDS though, its the eyepokes which went unpunished, its judges giving him every close fight he has and generally preferential treatment from Dana.

I think of all the GOAT candidates Jones has benefited more from promoter favouritism than anyone else.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Read what the OP said please : "But if sherdog is to represent a microcosm of the world wide MMA community, I believe it is safe to say that half of this community does not believe Jones to be goat due to PED usage."

If Jon Jones + GOAT make millions of views on Youtube, it's obviously because no one cares about what Sherdog thinks



Sherdog is the most delusional place i've ever seen on MMA, because most of the members here are fanatic fanboys without any proper critical mind.

No person in his right mind would ever believe Fedor has a single word to say in the GOAT debate, yet he has several fanatics to defend him here.

except you don't know who all the millions of views are. the OP says "MMA community" not rando guy who got algorithm'd onto the video. i think Fedor is one of the greatest of all time. why does that make me delusional? you know, OTHER PRO FIGHTERS have said he is too, not just "delusional sherdoggers".

 

[BFoe]

No there are not.

Lol ok. I mean, there literally are.

What a bullshit comment : Jon Jones has been dominant pre and post USADA, while some fighters completely collapsed once under USADA.

Some fighters even completely collapsed once under some weak drug testing : Mirko for instance and his awful record in the UFC. Fedor also has a bad record whenever he fought out of Japan.

Yet it's always about Jon Jones because you're all haters.

Lmao talk about a bullshit comment. “Durr, Jones was dominant post-USADA!” Yeah, and he failed piss tests a zillion times lol. He remained dominant when USADA entered the picture because he remained on gear, obviously.

What’s interesting to me is how much you dickride Jon Jones despite being such a USADA cheerleader. He’s failed multiple times, he’s allegedly pulsed steroids out of his fucking body for crazy long periods of time, he’s hidden under the cage from the commission like a scared kitten…. He’s exactly the type of dirty fighter that USADA was supposed to weed out. Yet you defend him.

What you said about Fedor isn’t true either, btw. The Coleman 2, Sylvia, Arlovski, and Rogers fights were all in the US and Fedor won them all. All of those fights happened before he ever lost to Werdum. People like to act as if Fedor started losing the second PRIDE folded, or the second he started fighting in the US, but neither is true.

 

[C0NCH3TO]

Jones timing, distance control, fight iq and well roundness are exceptional. He’s a prodigy of the sport. Imo he retires on top and unbeaten, can’t argue about his greatness.

That said, you have to be a moron or an uncoordinated goof who never touched a ball or put some gloves on if you believe that roids didn’t play a role. Reyes and Gus 1 were incredibly difficult fights for Jones, being a Juice head gave him a leg up to edge it out.

 

[Yellowcrab]

except you don't know who all the millions of views are. the OP says "MMA community" not rando guy who got algorithm'd onto the video.

It's fair to say that most people who watch MMA videos are at least interested in MMA

i think Fedor is one of the greatest of all time. why does that make me delusional?

Got destroyed by a MW while being much younger. Not a single good fighter in the history of all fighting sports ever lost against :

- A smaller guy coming from below 2 weight classes
- A much older fighter that should have been already retired (40 years old)
- By TKO in the first round

You won't find any great fighter who ever lost in those conditions, no matter the fighting sport : it only happened to Fedor

Fedor was good in a circus show with weak competition and that's it.

 

[Yellowcrab]

its the eyepokes which went unpunished

Another made up argument. Whenever you type Jon Jones and eye poke on Google, that's what you find :

Here's a legit eye poke :



But it's not Jon Jones, so it's fine

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

It's fair to say that most people who watch MMA videos are at least interested in MMA

on youtube? no it's not. their algorithm doesn't send me MMA videos and i've watched MMA since the 90s. i even practiced it and did it. their algorithm sends me things i'm not even interested in, just because i accidentally misclicked on a video, or was sent a video.

i don't get why you're using youtube views as some kind of metric that means anything. bots exist you know? there's a whole business built around faking views and subs. while i told you straight up that PROFESSIONAL FIGHTERS consider Fedor the best. but you ignore that like youtube views means more than actual fighter's opinions.

Got destroyed by a MW while being much younger. Not a single good fighter in the history of all fighting sports ever lost against :

- A smaller guy coming from below 2 weight classes
- A much older fighter that should have been already retired (40 years old)
- By TKO in the first round

You won't find any great fighter who ever lost in those conditions, no matter the fighting sport : it only happened to Fedor

Fedor was good in a circus show with weak competition and that's it.

weak competition? he beat a number of UFC champions, kickboxing champions, and Olympians. actually, more than Jon Jones did. so his greatness hinged on a single loss? i also didn't see him get destroyed, he was on the verge of winning before Hendo pulled off a miraculous comeback while ON TRT.

Ernesto Hoost lost to a NFL player with a couple years training and barely a handful of fights twice by stoppage. i don't see anyone questioning Hoost's greatness. that's never happened to any great fighter before either. Mike Tyson was a 42-1 favorite to not just beat but destroy Buster Douglas and he's the one who got destroyed. yet everyone still thinks Mike is one of the greatest ever. that never happened to a great fighter before either. Jon Jones lost to Matt Hammil because he disqualified himself while completely dominating Hammil. that's never happened before to a great fighter.

are you seeing how "that's never happened to a great fighter" is a terrible argument yet?

 

[Yellowcrab]

Lol ok. I mean, there literally are.

No.

Lmao talk about a bullshit comment. “Durr, Jones was dominant post-USADA!” Yeah, and he failed piss tests a zillion times lol. He remained dominant when USADA entered the picture because he remained on gear, obviously.

You can't cheat as much under USADA as without USADA. So true or not, your argument is irrelevant.

What’s interesting to me is how much you dickride Jon Jones despite being such a USADA cheerleader. He’s failed multiple times, he’s allegedly pulsed steroids out of his fucking body for crazy long periods of time, he’s hidden under the cage from the commission like a scared kitten…. He’s exactly the type of dirty fighter that USADA was supposed to weed out. Yet you defend him.

Because i actually rely on facts (but you hate facts) never proven guilty : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Jones#Failed_drug_tests

The same thing happened to O'Malley, but no one cares because it's not Jon Jones : https://ufc.usada.org/sean-omalley-accepts-sanction-second-doping-violation/

What you said about Fedor isn’t true either, btw. The Coleman 2, Sylvia, Arlovski, and Rogers fights were all in the US and Fedor won them all. All of those fights happened before he ever lost to Werdum. People like to act as if Fedor started losing the second PRIDE folded, or the second he started fighting in the US, but neither is true.

Oustide of Japan is record is bad : he lost to a MW grandpa, to not even gatekeeper level Silva, destroyed by Bader in 2019 (sure he was old but he litteraly lasted 35 fucking seconds...) etc.

 

[Yellowcrab]

but you ignore that like youtube views means more than actual fighter's opinions.

And you ignore the fighters that have exposed Fedor. Also, most fighters think about marketing, so they don't want to upset fanatics like you

weak competition? he beat a number of UFC champions, kickboxing champions, and Olympians. actually, more than Jon Jones did. so his greatness hinged on a single loss? i also didn't see him get destroyed, he was on the verge of winning before Hendo pulled off a miraculous comeback while ON TRT.

Stop with these bullshit, he never beat any relevant name

His best "champion" is Arlovski who got an interim belt against this guy :



His actual best win is probably Mark Hunt, but that was in the circus show that doesn't test for doping + when Hunt was new to MMA.

 

[Megatronlee]

Honest question to Jones fans. I am done arguing with you guys and if in the face of all the evidence , if you still support your boy so be it .

But if sherdog is to represent a microcosm of the world wide MMA community, I believe it is safe to say that half of this community does not believe Jones to be goat due to PED usage.

Don't you all thing that you would at least need a majority of people to believe a fighter is goat before designating this label to him/her?

Doesn't it bother you at all that Jones does not have that support of the MMA community?

Because fans know nothing

 

[Yellowcrab]

Ernesto Hoost lost to a NFL player with a couple years training and barely a handful of fights twice by stoppage. i don't see anyone questioning Hoost's greatness. that's never happened to any great fighter before either.

At least Hoost is both much smaller and older than Sapp.

Also, Sapp is notorious for fixed or no effort fights but he had a real beef with Hoost, hence why : "I will receive no damage to my body that will be long lasting for a small insignificant amount of cash. I think we've seen that now with examples with the NFL and the fact that some of these guys are coming back and saying, "Hey we want some money, we have brain damage." I'm getting paid well underneath what a professional boxer would, or Manny Pacquiao. So I will, in no means ever, will I sustain long-lasting damage for a small paycheck. Never will that happen, never will "The Beast" ever have that happen."

https://www.mmamania.com/2012/5/22/...-injured-for-a-small-paycheck-mma-heavyweight

Mike Tyson was a 42-1 favorite to not just beat but destroy Buster Douglas and he's the one who got destroyed. yet everyone still thinks Mike is one of the greatest ever.

Stop it with this false comparaison : Tyson almost beat Douglas, he knocked him down. Also, both come from the same weight class and Buster was 30 years old at that time.

Jon Jones lost to Matt Hammil because he disqualified himself while completely dominating Hammil. that's never happened before to a great fighter.

No one cares about that, i mean really

 

[Bork Neslar]

He's a cheater. He may be the most succesful MMA fighter so far, but he'll never be the GOAT.

 

[goOb]

My neighbor next to me is 100% on steroids. Dude looks swollen, guy must be at least 6'5" tall and about 350lbs. Don't get me wrong he isn't the most agile dude on the block but he's huge. Neighbor on the other side is always working out with his wife in the garage. Dude is swollen as well. Not as tall as the other neighbor but he is ripped. Walking my dog down the road, I see a woman walking, completely shredded, 0% body fat. She just left her driveway where her husband is outside and her husband looks like a mini Shane Carwin. In my neighborhood alone, I know of at least 4 people who are obviously on gear. When I go to planet fitness, there is a lady there who looks like Starla from Napoleon Dynamite. There are tons of people using PEDS, throughout professional sports and the world. It's become a fact of life that I have come to accept because it's not going away nor are the methods to cheat detection.

 

[The Don]

I don’t think that’s fair to say. What should we make of someone like Michael Bisping? That dude is super outspoken against steroids, never had any sort of look or performance that would make us think he’s on steroids, and he’s never failed a test in his long career. I give him the benefit of the doubt, personally. It’s funny how much shenanigans and how many excuses a guy like Jones needs, while none of that weird shit ever happened to Bisping.

When Lesnar was given that USADA exemption for UFC 200 and then popped, why would Mark Hunt be that pissed if he was just on gear too? Pissed off enough to sue, even.
It’s a reality that PEDs are rampant in MMA, but I don’t think everyone is on them and they shouldn’t have to be to try and compete with these other fighters. So while Jones is crazy talented, and his resume is fantastic, he’s probably the biggest PED cheat the sport has ever seen except for maybe Barnett, and I absolutely think it should be taken into account when evaluating his career.

I mean these are all great and valid points. And there are definitely outliers for sure, but it's fair to assume that the majority of the roster are on something, and PEDS usage doesn't equate to greatness. How many fighters are out there who are most likely taking PEDS and never even crack top 5, or even top 10? I've never said everyone was on it, but just the majority.

Look at Costa or Romero, they're most definitely on something, but you don't put them on the same vein as Jones. Just because someone is on PEDS, doesn't disqualify their accomplishments when, again, the majority of them are probably on them too.

 

[The Don]

If its "even" why does Jones fail so often, and no one else comes close.

Not failing tests doesn't necessarily mean they aren't on them. They just haven't been caught. Costa's a good example.

 

[DarthChen731]

Keep hating, Jones is the greatest to ever do it

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

At least Hoost is both much smaller and older than Sapp.

Also, Sapp is notorious for fixed or no effort fights but he had a real beef with Hoost, hence why : "I will receive no damage to my body that will be long lasting for a small insignificant amount of cash. I think we've seen that now with examples with the NFL and the fact that some of these guys are coming back and saying, "Hey we want some money, we have brain damage." I'm getting paid well underneath what a professional boxer would, or Manny Pacquiao. So I will, in no means ever, will I sustain long-lasting damage for a small paycheck. Never will that happen, never will "The Beast" ever have that happen."

https://www.mmamania.com/2012/5/22/...-injured-for-a-small-paycheck-mma-heavyweight



Stop it with this false comparaison : Tyson almost beat Douglas, he knocked him down. Also, both come from the same weight class and Buster was 30 years old at that time.



No one cares about that, i mean really

nobody cares about Fedor losing to Hendo except people like you who try to discredit an entire career over 1 single fight. people talk about Jones losing to Hammil more than they talk about Fedor losing to Hendo. TRT made Hendo into a 30 yr old Hendo. Fedor wasn't even close to a 42-1 favorite to win. that tells you right away, more people believed Hendo could beat Fedor than Douglas could beat Tyson. Fedor had already lost twice before fighting Hendo, Tyson was an undefeated phenom. not even comparable. which is why it's considered one of the biggest upsets in history of sports, and Hendo beating Fedor isn't.

Tyson didn't almost beat Douglas. he dropped him but it was a flash knockdown. if he was really hurt he wouldn't have KO'd Tyson in the very next rd. Douglas was beating Tyson the entire fight. you should probably watch it. because you'd have seen Douglas PUNCH THE GROUND in frustration when he got dropped. which indicates he was fully aware of what happened and wasn't hurt. so no, Tyson didn't almost win, and you're talking about the guy who was a 42-1 favorite "almost winning", Tyson was supposed to dogwalk Douglas and pitch a shutout, not "almost win".

you can like Jon Jones without having to try to drag Fedor's career. it's strange listening to alleged MMA fans shit on guys that every reasonable person can agree is great. the only person who is delusional is you because you're pretending Fedor is some piece of trash tomato can. the irony is you shitting on sherdoggers but you can't even see your own hypocrisy that you are in fact the people you speak of.

 

[LetThemBleed]

Not failing tests doesn't necessarily mean they aren't on them. They just haven't been caught. Costa's a good example.

Surely the difference is though those who haven't ever failed a test get some benefit of the doubt, those who have failed tests, multiple tests at that don't. Does your argument boil down to in Costa's case that because of his physique you believe is a cheat, albeit a smart one capable of getting away with it while the likes of Bones are cheaters but are also stupid enough to get caught?

 

[orca]

his resume says he got dq 1 time right? cheated 1 time
you erase that 1 win your favorite goat candidates resume
would still look like a trash
if u compare it to jones
lol

the only thing that makes jones haters feel good
these full grown men with fully grown brain believe
fedor was natural
in pride the more money you have the more you can afford peds
its not even fair because you get an advantage over fighters
that are broke and can only afford cheap ones

prime fedor got humiliated in a drug testing org in america

and lol at gsp greaser and many more
2023 and people still think theyr natural

lmao

 

[orca]

It's like 30% that think he's GOAT.

100% agree he cheated.

No one doubts he hasn't pissed hot.

your naive thats it
pride was not even fair
fighters there get a huge advantage over others who
are broke and cant afford quality peds

those who can afford to inject more does have advantages

imagine your a broke masked man pro wrestler
you think you got an advantage over a russian fedor who got alot
of support from his country?