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All Time GOAT poll

TempleoftheDog said:
Neither is Khabib. So let’s be clear about that.

But if we’re talking about overall.. I’ll take the guy that has the same amount of defences. As well as a second belt in a higher weight division. To me it’s not even close. If you want to claim Khabib is the LW GOAT for a few years until he gets passed by, knock yourself out. But that is literally where any GOAT talk of Khabib ends.
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exactly this. khabib hid from challenges, and bj faced everyone who he could. records are going to look different on paper when you get fat just so you can fight MWs and HWs as a natural FW. Guy has more of a claim than Khabib does to being lw GOAT. That zero in khabibs record represents being conservative. He always pulled out of fights when he was the tiniest bit injured, where other guys had to fight or wanted to fight. Call it smart if you want, but he's not the LW goat.
 
BJ was a very good fighter in his day and was in the goat talks around 2008 when he was on his title run, but after Edgar took his belt, then Bendo, then Khabib, BJ isn't even top 3 LW goat. BJ goat status is more pushed by his willingness to fight bigger opponents, heart and just being a real fighter. Of course his title run and WW title win is part of that, but there are many that have accomplished multiple title wins. He's in the 10-20 range perhaps in goat rankings.
 
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Penn is LW goat until someone else gets more defenses and accomplishments. Khabib has a 0 because he barely fought anyone. Thats not an accomplishment in fighting, its a lack of them. They have a tie for defenses. Penn fought and beat more names in his day and top 10 guys in the world though. LW Goat easy. Not MMA GOAT but LW GOAT.
 
WHITE ANDERSON said:
bj penn won belts in two different weight classes
he beat matt hughest, one of the best WW champs of all time

khabib was so terrified of fighting men his own size that he literally almost died cutting weight

neither fighter is in GOAT discussion but BJ penn is much higher than khabib
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REAL TALK. Emotional fanboys are gonna get emotional though.
 
Penn was maybe the best p4p fighter the sport has ever seen in his prime. That's why people talk about his greatness. He's the only fighter we've ever actually see dominate GSP (who is the GOAT) for any length of time. He also did that while weighing in at a soft 168lbs. Had he had better cardio, he would have handed GSP his only decision loss in their first fight. The guy was a freak

The problem is that he took on all comers and fought long after he should have. If BJ would have fought at LW his entire career and retired in his early 30's he would have only had a few losses, and we wouldn't be having this discussion because he would never have fought the likes of : Nick Diaz, Lyoto Machida, Matt Hughes, GSP, Rory McDonald John Fitch. He also would not have any of those embarrassing way past prime loses.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
No, we don't.

You can cut off BJ's career at the age Khabib retired. IIRC it was 16-7 with three losses at a common weight (LW, IIRC his LW record was 8-3), and similar levels of dominance peak-to-peak. FFS, Khabib barely lost a *round*, let alone multiple fights. Top wins are at worst...comparable.

Holding BJ over Khabib as a martial artist is basically "glory days syndrome" and boomerism to the nth degree.

Khabib doesn't have a case for overall GOAT because his tenure was too short and volume of accomplishment too small, but he is 100 percent above BJ within LW with zero debate among people that are objective.
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No he's not.

We stop BJ at this third title defense and his resume is superior.

Saying people like Gaethje, McGregor, Al and Poirier is better than Diego, KenFlo, Joe Daddy, and Sherk is novelty fallacy at its finest.
 
HitMachine said:
I see a lot of threads lately talking about BJ Penn and GOAT in the same sentence.
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So you decided to make another one? That's a novel idea, I'm sure there we will be a lot of new and original additions to the discussion
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Glad you decided upon that - had so many of us concerned that he might actually be considered.

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I have him somewhere around top 8-15 of all time. Definitely under the obvious choices and guys like Big Nog, Hendo, and Frankie imo. He’s also an interesting fighter to rank because he has like 50 loses. Also, lmao at bringing up the 50-45 in the first Edgar fight. I personally scored 1,2 and 4 clearly for BJ, so I honestly do think he should have got the nod. However it was such a boring sparing match that I don’t really care too much about that fight especially when Frankie owned him in the rematch. But that 50-45 scorecard was egregious.
 
BJ Penn GOAT??? <Lmaoo> Not even close. Maybe one of the toughest fighters ever, but not great.
 
Some fighters just don't know when to hang it up. If losing at the end of your career disqualifies you then a lot of past goats wouldn't qualify. Personally I'd rather compare two fighters skillsets and who they fought in their primes / peak of their career over just a blind winning record.

Penn was a great fighter. It doesn't matter if its 2021 or 2050. Skills are skills. Now I don't think he would have been able to beat khabib. At the same time he has qualities many fighters aren't willing to do like the willingness to take risk by moving upto fight Hughes, GSP etc.
 
BJ is cemented in history as one of the GOATS of MMA and nothing is going to change that. Doesn’t matter how you feel about it.
 
HitMachine said:
I see a lot of threads lately talking about BJ Penn and GOAT in the same sentence.

Let's be clear, he's not in GOAT discussion, his record of 16-14 is embarrassing.. and 16-15 if we count the KO by a drunk.

Now, before you respond to say I wasn't around to witness him in his prime.. I in fact did witness his prime. I saw him lose to GSP twice and make up excuses.. saw him lose to Matt Hughes in the rematch..

And of course the one that sticks out the most, was seeing him outclassed three times (twice in his prime) to Frankie Edgar. Go watch those fights, they were very one sided and BJ Penn had nothing to offer. Even his corner had no advice for him in between rounds as they were shocked that BJ Penn was an inferior fighter.

There is no way BJ Penn should be in the GOAT discussion. Not 10 years ago.. and not today.
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Khabib fought 6 fights against top guys. BJ Penn has a who who of his era LW's, WW's and even a HW Machida fight on his resume. The dude fought at WW for much of his career and captured a belt up there as a FW. You can argue people weren't as good then if you llike, but that also discredits most of Khabibs wins.

Khabib's record would look similar if he had stuck around for as long as BJ or BJ had gotten to 17 -0 before he started fighting at the top level.
Equal defences and a win at WW put him in discussion. Khabib has the easiest title fight opponent, a great string of defences and an early win against RDA.
They are pretty even if you look at their accomplishments. Diego Sanchez was on a tear at that time and well rounded, Florian was pretty good and Sherk was a beast and only lost to the best. They are alll great defences at the time.The WW belt cancels out the losses late in his career in my opinion.
 
I generally agree with most of what you're saying except the first Edgar fight was somewhat close, but I think he clearly won that fight.

Also, if he would have retired right after being shafted, he rightly would have been in the discussion. He totally tainted his legacy with all the shit that happened after that fight.

Guy had all the skills, just didn't take diet and training as seriously as he should have until he started to decline in a major way.
 
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