Social Alberta has more measles cases than the US

[Voodoo_Child906]

The graph looks different depending on your study population and date range.

The link has the purported original figures and a talk by pediatrician Lawrence Palevsky:

Did diseases decline because of vaccines? Not according to history…

“VACCINATION DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR THE IMPRESSIVE DECLINES IN MORTALITY SEEN IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE CENTURY…NEARLY 90% OF THE DECLINE IN INFECTIOUS DISEASE MORTALITY AMONG US CHILDREN OCCURRED BEFORE 1940, WHEN FEW ANTIBIOTICS OR VACCINES WERE AVAILABLE.” — ANNUAL SUMMARY OF VITAL STATISTICS...

learntherisk.org

You can't be serious, I looked at the citations for those graphs and they all link to this:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/vsrates1940_60.pdf

VITAL STATISTICS RATES IN THE UNITED STATES 1940-1960

It also cites death rates on the Y axis and not case rates anywhere. Contraction rates equals more hospitalizations, encephalitis, meningitis, paralysis, hearing loss, brain damage, nerve damage etc. How could you cite something like this in comparison to the current CDC graph and think it's equivalent??

And neither your graphs or mine are looking at deaths from the vaccine. Igor Chudov seems to think there's something to see here: https://www.igor-chudov.com/p/are-childhood-vaccines-safe-dtp-vaccine

Ok so I looked this guy up and it looks like he owns a math website and has a background in business and programming. He is not a medical professional or a scientists so I will wait and see if others who are scientists/medical pros can verify his data and back up his claims before I take his work seriously.

We can debate it here, but I'm not sure I will do as well as Lawrence Palevsky would do, and I want to see the best debaters go at it, with no excuses of the dangers of giving the other side a platform.

So you don't want to debate autism rates anymore? WTF! Why did you bring it up in the first place, did you really think I wasn't going to challenge your claim?

I am where my aunt was when she was offered Thalidomide during pregnancy. She wasn't confident that she could trust the physician in front of her telling her it was safe, and she judged that she wasn't at much risk of harm from anxiety anyways, so she risked anxiety figuring anxiety wasn't going to kill her and she avoided an unkown risk (at the time) of limb defects in her baby.

Thank you for the anecdote, and I'm sure that others can give others where the medical community saved their loved ones. I know I can.

Similarly, I can go forth knowing that over a thousand people got measles recently in Alberta and no one has died. If a child death is attributed to measles, I will have to keep in mind that the Alberta health authority, in the person of Deena Hinshaw, has a track record of lying to me regarding whether that kid with the brain tumor died of Covid. So I can afford to wait and see if RFK Jr provides a useful debate between vaccine heavyweights with no excuses of cancel culture in the name of preventing a platform for vaccine hesitancy. You don't think I need to wait, and that you have all the answers now, but your side no has a track record of lying to me and of cancel culture.

My side? Mainstream science and modern medicine you mean? In a world of 8 Billion people, medicine isn’t about finding perfectly safe treatments (those rarely exist), but about choosing the option that maximizes benefit and minimizes harm. Hinshaw made a huge mistake in how that case was initially reported. But she also publicly apologized and changed the reporting policy to prevent it from happening again, she took accountability. You really don't think that anyone on "your side" has lied, and not take accountability for it?

"I believe that if vaccine manufactures do not follow safety standards and there is evidence of fraud and or gross negligence, then yes they should face liability." This is a non-answer by you. You see this list of lawsuit settlements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements
There's no vaccines on it because the vaccine makers successfully argued to Ronald Reagan that they would go out business if the vaccines were subject to the same standards as Avandia or Bextra are today. So vaccines get their own court and injuries are compensated from tax dollars. Do you agree with me that the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 should be repealed and vaccines should have the same legal standards as Avandia and Bextra?

Absolutely not, Vaccines and emergency use drugs are protected for a reason as the risk has been deemed acceptable compared to the disease. Penicillin can cause allergic reactions but it also cures deadly bacterial infections and it's still widely used. Cipro has known side effects but is still used to neutralize anthrax. And I can go on. From what I've been reading, in Bextra’s case, Pfizer promoted off-label uses the FDA had rejected. They should absolutely be liable for that, and I'd say actually make an exception for vaccines if they were marketed for some off-label use and it caused injury.

"Now a question for you, if someone is injured by a pathogen where a vaccine could have protected a community, can that person sue the people that refused that vaccine?" I don't know if that person can sue in this case, but I would hope that such a suit would not be successful. You are not even causally connecting the transmission from the unvacinated person. I'll give you a better example: There's a bus accident, and a prostitute unintentionally bleeds her HIV+ blood on you, and you get AIDS; should she have to pay you because her illegal activity of being a prostitute caused her to unintentionally give you AIDS? For the record, I hope that this lawsuit would also fail.

Nope, I've answered your questions so you don't get to change mine. If the transmission was causally connected from the unvaccinated person, could the injured person sue?

 

[HomeCheese]

https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/track-measles-outbreak-cases-us-map-rcna198932

Doesn't seem to be incorrect. As of last week Kentucky had 7 cases for the year.

I stand corrected. I must have misread the article I googled. User error man.