Aikido (Steven Seagal) in MMA: Does anyone actually believe it can work in MMA?

[bad_k]

What most people fail to realize when it comes to all individual combative arts like boxing, aikido, judo etc is that these sports are intended to ONLY use against people who doesn't practice the sport or performed within their training facility to each other under their OWN strict rules.

For example boxing is an excellent form of hand to hand combat but the entire style is devoted to people who too will only throw punches back. This means boxing doesn't teach you how to fight against a muay thai fighter who will headkick you, low leg kick you or knee you when you clinch up etc

The same exact concept applies to aikido

Their style is hard to transfer into the mma field but aikido black belts will destroy an average person without any combat experience.

 

[ticho123]

What most people fail to realize when it comes to all individual combative arts like boxing, aikido, judo etc is that these sports are intended to ONLY use against people who doesn't practice the sport or performed within their training facility to each other under their OWN strict rules.

For example boxing is an excellent form of hand to hand combat but the entire style is devoted to people who too will only throw punches back. This means boxing doesn't teach you how to fight against a muay thai fighter who will headkick you, low leg kick you or knee you when you clinch up etc

The same exact concept applies to aikido

Their style is hard to transfer into the mma field but aikido black belts will destroy an average person without any combat experience.

That doesn't make any sense. Isn't Aikido supposed to be a self defense system?
And historically I think you are wrong. In the beginning martial arts weren' taught as sports, old boxing was the art of punching, not the art of winning sanctioned pro boxing matches with a strict ruleset. The founder of judo first sought out jiujutsu to defend himself against bullies. As far as I understand he didn't start judo with the intention of creating a sport. And then you have BJJ which was designed to beat any style etc etc. I understand your point in a modern setting, but historically speaking you are wrong. In fact I think most styles originated as a way of defending yourself against opponents of varying martial experience, although not every style is effective.

 

[JAEGERX]

for my experience it only works if being assailed by multiple street thugs at once

 

[bad_k]

That doesn't make any sense. Isn't Aikido supposed to be a self defense system?
And historically I think you are wrong. In the beginning martial arts weren' taught as sports, old boxing was the art of punching, not the art of winning sanctioned pro boxing matches with a strict ruleset. The founder of judo first sought out jiujutsu to defend himself against bullies. As far as I understand he didn't start judo with the intention of creating a sport. And then you have BJJ which was designed to beat any style etc etc. I understand your point in a modern setting, but historically speaking you are wrong.

You completely misunderstood my entire point

Aikido is a self defense system designed SPECIFICALLY and STRICTLY against people who doesn't have any combative experience OR background. Some average joe down the block who works at bakery starts a fight with the aikido expert and he will get his ass kicked. The self defense aspect in this scenario applied perfectly.

The point I'm making here is that there is no individual combative sport that takes into account of other combative sports. Go to a boxing class and ask if they teach you what to do when the grappling expert double leg takedown you to the floor and he starts applying a kimura lock on you. They won't... boxing will only teach you how to throw punches and duck away from punches thrown at you.

Now most boxers will end most street fights in matter of seconds against other non marital artists. Do you see the point I'm getting at?

 

[bjjwar]

With the recent talks of Steven Seagal "teaching Cormier some 'deadly' techniques," I was wondering if anyone here on Sherdog actually believe Aikido can work in MMA?

This was what Bas Rutten said about Aikido in MMA:

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This was what happened when Aikido met a real martial art (wrestling):

[YT]PLP_DInpPHE[/YT]
​

From what I know, Aikido practitioners don't even spar. All they do is perform choreographed demo against each other. Aikido is a nice martial art for the movies, not real fighting.

Don't know about aikido,but you can't generalize like that based on 1 example.

You could also take BJ vs Sanchez and say well this is what happens when a wrestler faces a bjj guy.Wrestling is crap.

 

[JohnSouth]

LOL, let me guess, here comes the typical, "a real fight has groin shots and eye gouging"?

This has been proven at UFC 1 that BJJ worked when there were eye gouging and groin shots.

Or let me guess, you were going to say, "a real fight is vs multiple opponents / weapons"?

In that case, no martial art will work.

Why is it that every time when there is a discussion about how TMAs aren't effective, the people who defend them always resort to these ridiculous arguments?

1. There was no eye gouging in UFC 1.
2. Yes, many things work against multiple opponents and weapons and there are multiple you tube videos to prove that. A skateboarder beats up a thug with a gun and nothing works? lol
3. The use of gloves, small joint manipulation banned is a disadvantage

MMA needs to go back to no rules format, of course it never was no rules, just less rules

Wearing gloves in particular is plainly bullshit, the punches that happen in MMA could never happen not to mention the falls these guys take.

Of course as we know all street fights take place naked on a soft surface. lol

 

[effedup]

A lot of you just have no appreciation for the art form just like how some used to dismiss JiuJitsu as a legit art form. Akido is a very potent MA for negating energy and movement, but without the use of small joint manipulation I don't see it being utilized that well in MMA.

The Akido practitioner in the TS video is probably really good at Akido, but you can tell he's obviously never been tested by a wrestler. In today's world there is no such thing as just one MA that fits them all, people are becoming competent in striking, grappling in submissions.

 

[ticho123]

You completely misunderstood my entire point

Aikido is a self defense system designed SPECIFICALLY and STRICTLY against people who doesn't have any combative experience OR background. Some average joe down the block who works at bakery starts a fight with the aikido expert and he will get his ass kicked. The self defense aspect in this scenario applied perfectly.

The point I'm making here is that there is no individual combative sport that takes into account of other combative sports. Go to a boxing class and ask if they teach you what to do when the grappling expert double leg takedown you to the floor and he starts applying a kimura lock on you. They won't... boxing will only teach you how to throw punches and duck away from punches thrown at you.

Now most boxers will end most street fights in matter of seconds against other non marital artists. Do you see the point I'm getting at?

Yeah I was thinking that from the start but then I got a bit confused when you started talking about boxing and judo how they're only designed to work against people that train the same sport without changing paragraph. Thought you were comparing them to akido, but it was actually two seperate points. However, I don't really agree with your second point. While modern boxing training obviously doesn't concern takedowns, many modern martial arts like judo or BJJ are designed to work against opponents of varied experience. You could also say that boxing teaches you balance and especially footwork and range control, which works wonders when avoiding the takedown.

A trained akido expert will most certainly beat the average joe, although I'm not convinced that it works better than just some boxing. Many of the moves leaves so small margins for error that I find it hard to believe that they will work everytime in a spontaneous and hectic situation. The general style also seems to be somewhat passive with specific counters to specific attacks where a judo/BJJ/wrestling guy can just tie someone up and drag them to the ground regardless of what the opponent chooses to do.

 

[JohnSouth]

A lot of you just have no appreciation for the art form just like how some used to dismiss JiuJitsu as a legit art form. Akido is a very potent MA for negating energy and movement, but without the use of small joint manipulation I don't see it being utilized that well in MMA.

The Akido practitioner in the TS video is probably really good at Akido, but you can tell he's obviously never been tested by a wrestler. In today's world there is no such thing as just one MA that fits them all, people are becoming competent in striking, grappling in submissions.

That is true, under a different rule set I could see people pulling off these throws.

It is probably best to look at Aikido as part of the Jujitsu family along with Judo and BJJ.

These are not standalone techniques, the original Aikido masters were not trained only in Aikido.

Aikido, Judo and BJJ is a solid combination.

 

[Bearknuckle]

First of all, you're on an MMA forum, so I'd think you must have seen tons of guard pulling in high level fights, and they worked. What I don't understand is if guard pulling worked for high level fights, what makes you think they don't work in a street fight (vs low level opponents), assuming we're talking about 1vs1 fight here?

Second of all, yes, it does work in a street fight:

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That is not a street fight. That is an nhb fight outdoors.

 

[kaya]

It would only work if the opponent knew the script for what move was coming and how to do those cool front flips.

Aikido is like dancing.. you need a partner you've practiced with.

 

[bad_k]

Yeah I was thinking that from the start but then I got a bit confused when you started talking about boxing and judo how they're only designed to work against people that train the same sport without changing paragraph. Thought you were comparing them to akido, but it was actually two seperate points. However, I don't really agree with your second point. While modern boxing training obviously doesn't concern takedowns, many modern martial arts like judo or BJJ are designed to work against opponents of varied experience. You could also say that boxing teaches you balance and especially footwork and range control, which works wonders when avoiding the takedown.

A trained akido expert will most certainly beat the average joe, although I'm not convinced that it works better than just some boxing. Many of the moves leaves so small margins for error that I find it hard to believe that they will work everytime in a spontaneous and hectic situation. The general style also seems to be somewhat passive with specific counters to specific attacks where a judo/BJJ/wrestling guy can just tie someone up and drag them to the ground regardless of what the opponent chooses to do.

Judo doesn't teach you how how to fight against a wrestler. A judo guy can be walking down the block in streets clothes and if he gets double legged by a wrestler he is very vulnerable of getting pinned on the ground. (wrestler's strong point)

Judo doesn't teach you how to fight a kickboxer that kicks your legs when in distance and throws a punches at your face when in close range.

The important premise in this whole discussion is that there is NO sport that takes into account of OTHER combative sports. EVERY self defense system are fundamentally created for martial artist vs non martial artist.

 

[DaleBoca]

It's as real as Rex-Kown-Do

 

[SirRealKiller]

Aikido is probably the MA that is least useful in MMA or RL Combat. Most of that shit doesn't work unless the other guy is cooperating.

That said, Aikido has it's start in jiu-jitus/judo so there are some things in Aikido that might work in MMA/RL Combat situations but most of the stuff is far too dependant on the attacker doing things in an exact way, in the right angle to have it work.

McDojo karate is probably more useful than Aikido.

That said, MMA isn't really the best overall MA for real world defense either.

 

[ticho123]

Judo doesn't teach you how how to fight against a wrestler. A judo guy can be walking down the block in streets clothes and if he gets double legged by a wrestler he is very vulnerable of getting pinned on the ground. (wrestler's strong point)

Judo doesn't teach you how to fight a kickboxer that kicks your legs when in distance and throws a punches at your face when in close range.

The important premise in this whole discussion is that there is NO sport that takes into account of OTHER combative sports. EVERY self defense system are fundamentally created for martial artist vs non martial artist.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. If you're referring to martial arts that are considered sports, as in that there are tournaments, then BJJ would be the prime exemple of a martial arts that takes other forms of martial arts in account. I would think MT fighters would consider similiar sports such as TKD as well since they could fight under similiar rulesets.

Also, what's the point of a self defense system that only works on schmuks? Seems like a better way to spend your time to learn how to fight anyone if needed.

 

[SirRealKiller]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. If you're referring to martial arts that are considered sports, as in that there are tournaments, then BJJ would be the prime exemple of a martial arts that takes other forms of martial arts in account. I would think MT fighters would consider similiar sports such as TKD as well since they could fight under similiar rulesets.

Also, what's the point of a self defense system that only works on schmuks? Seems like a better way to spend your time to learn how to fight anyone if needed.

There really are not that many true self defense systems anymore. Everything is geared toward sport or for show.

Krav Maga might actually be the best overall real world self defense system given it teaches you striking, grappling, jointlocks, dirty fighting, situational awareness, and weapons defense.

 

[phatron]

The important premise in this whole discussion is that there is NO sport that takes into account of OTHER combative sports.

what kind of forum are we on?

 

[Loiosh]

McDojo karate is probably more useful than Aikido.

This is exactly my thinking.

 

[bad_k]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. If you're referring to martial arts that are considered sports, as in that there are tournaments, then BJJ would be the prime exemple of a martial arts that takes other forms of martial arts in account. I would think MT fighters would consider similiar sports such as TKD as well since they could fight under similiar rulesets.

Also, what's the point of a self defense system that only works on schmuks? Seems like a better way to spend your time to learn how to fight anyone if needed.

What's very important to note here is that BJJ doesn't .. i repeat.. it doesn't take other forms of combative sports to account, it just happens so that it's very effective against other arts.

BJJ will not give you a lesson on how to defend against punches, knee strikes, or uppercuts thrown to your jaw when in clinch etc

BJJ publicly showcased it's effectiveness in Martial Art vs other Martial Arts in it's early UFC days when all the fighters only practiced one discipline.

Don't mistake that as BJJ being the only combative sport that took into accounts of other combative sports.

I think for a very long period of time Boxing was considered the elite of all combat forms. Safe to say everyone agreed Mike Tyson would kill anyone in 1 on1 fight.

 

[ticho123]

There really are not that many true self defense systems anymore. Everything is geared toward sport or for show.

Krav Maga might actually be the best overall real world self defense system given it teaches you striking, grappling, jointlocks, dirty fighting, situational awareness, and weapons defense.

The drawback is that they can't train all those things full out because it would be too dangerous. Really, unless you live in a really dangerous place I think the best self defense is some takedown oriented grappling and striking, any kind that use sparring. The only fights I might be getting into is with drunken punks and I'm not going to gouge their eyes out or some shit. Submissions doesn't work for the same reason. If I apply the submission in a street fight, I have the option of either hoping that he respects the tap (lol) or basically put him into some serious harm with a knockout or limb break. With boxing or wrestling you can control the fight and defend yourself while keeping it as "civil" as possible if that makes any sense.

text

I'm not sure I follow you. BJJ isn't MMA, no. It doesn't concern strikes. Still it was designed to be a martial art that worked against the others. It wasn't designed as a regulated sport.