aggressiveness in bjj sparring bad???

[fedor4life]

fedor,
im trying to help you out man. if you seem to know it all, then how come everyone at your gym is fed up with you (including your instructor), and you come running to the 'grappling forum' asking questions? take it easy man. i know you spaz on the mat... dont bring that spaz shit here too.

haha, alright, i appreciate your post, the long one, where u explained a lot, but i would agree more with greoric or whatever on this one...basically the best wrestlers use both strength and technique, so why would it be different for bjj, u know...i really think that a lot of people on here think that wrestling is just "spazzing" but i can tell u it has pretty much the same amount of technique involved in it...otherwise the best wrestlers would be in the worlds strongest man competitions...i would invite anyone that has never wrestled to go to a college near them and spar with someone that is 30 pounds lighter than them, and then u guys can tell me that wrestling is "spazzing"

 

[Greoric]

ok two things man. first, if youre pissing everyone off at your gym by going way too nutz, then it sounds like you need a new gym.. or that BJJ isnt the sport for you. second... dont make this a wrestling vs BJJ thing. third, well see man. time will tell. ive rolled with brown/black belts who dont even break a sweat and they own me all day long. again, intensity and spazzing are two big differences.

greoric, look at all the BJJ masters.. they find balance between strength and technique (technique is a lot higher on the totem pole than strength). look at all of their fights... theyre relaxed... theyre calm.. and still they have some intensity.... but none of them spaz. if you refute this... then something is wrong.

Exactly! Go look at how the gracies grapple! I'm sure you've seen the Renzo and Ryan roll. It was one of the threads yesterday. Now thats intensity! I loved it. Hell those guys showed more intensity than I ever could. You are completley fucking up the word intensity by using Spazzing out. The top guys are the ones that youre calling Spazzes. One of you was criticizing fedor4life for calling you guys 'lazy.' Well hell youre being hypocritical for saying that intensity is spazzing. Its the craziest shit I ever heard.

And onto the point of disrespect and pissing people off when you go live....
Youre absolutly right the people hate going with me. Why? Because they think I'm being stupid by going intense? No. Its because they don't want to be worked! They come to BJJ to perfect their technique. With me there i give them a little something else for their money's worth, conditioning. If they want to or not. If you want to win you need to go live, go hard, go intense!

 

[fedor4life]

maybe because every single BJJ guy here, has had a runin (if not multiple) with tons of you spazy know it all kids, just like yourself. occasionally, some wrestlers pay attention to BJJ TECHNIQUE, and they can make for some great grapplers.

if there werent any spazzes in bjj class, how would u be able to defend yourself against someone untrained in a street fight???...no one is going half assed in a street fight, and if u are untrained and on the ground in a street fight, u are going to be spazzing...so without some new white belts spazzing out and what not, how would u actually try to use it in the street...people arent just going to lay in your guard on the street, they are going to try to use their strength to mucsle you and they will be very spazzy...so really, if anything, sparring with "spazzes" improves your overall game in my opinion because its a similar situation to a street fight (well if u are looking for self defense and not to do well in tournaments)

 

[Tom Hishon]

I am no mastrer of BJJ but have trained a few years. I go as hard as the person I am training with. I got guys that I am more comfortable rolling with and we go balls out. I have some people that would rather focus on technique and move a little slower and less aggressive, so I honor this.

It was a transition for me coming from a strong wrestling background, cause you want to leverage/power excute things at full speed. But you have to remember, in BJJ you are breaking peoples elbows and choking them out when you do that. Plus in all honestly, I was choked fucking out all the time. It was only when I slowed down and learned the proper technique that I got better. Cause if you don't, that is fine. You end up in a good position and spend all your energy trying half ass submissions, then when you are rolling with someone that knows what they are doing, they just wait for you to tire out and tap you....... Good luck, stick with it. Slow down a little and listen to people you train with. They are usually telling something for a reason. And remember, no one likes a spaz...

 

[fedor4life]

If you want to win you need to go live, go hard, go intense!

wrestlers mentality, summed up in a sentance...really your opinion on this subject is probably going to revolve around if u do bjj or wrestling, and which one that u did first...and greoric, is that wrestling record for high school??...over 100 wins is illl dude

 

[fedor4life]

I am no mastrer of BJJ but have trained a few years. I go as hard as the person I am training with. I got guys that I am more comfortable rolling with and we go balls out. I have some people that would rather focus on technique and move a little slower and less aggressive, so I honor this.

It was a transition for me coming from a strong wrestling background, cause you want to leverage/power excute things at full speed. But you have to remember, in BJJ you are breaking peoples elbows and choking them out when you do that. Plus in all honestly, I was choked fucking out all the time. It was only when I slowed down and learned the proper technique that I got better. Cause if you don't, that is fine. You end up in a good position and spend all your energy trying half ass submissions, then when you are rolling with someone that knows what they are doing, they just wait for you to tire out and tap you....... Good luck, stick with it. Slow down a little and listen to people you train with. They are usually telling something for a reason. And remember, no one likes a spaz...

thanks for the advice...it means a lot more from someone that doesnt immediately talk shit to me...also its good coming from a former wrestler...i think im going to have to try this...and oh, i have never been callled a spaz by anyone from my class or anything, only about 300 people on these forums

 

[fedor4life]

i dont know, basically if u arent ready to go all out, and u arent familiar with what to do when a skilled opponent goes all out, than your not going to do well in competition...period

 

[fedor4life]

look at this article written by a brown belt:

Not using too much power is important if you want to develop your technique, but if you want to develop a game you can really use against another competitor at a similar level, you have to be very active in your training and avoid the laziness of relaxing. I am NOT talking about spazzing out, but I am saying that you have to take the fight to the opponent at 100% in training if you want to really improve.

I didn't realize this until after a private with Marcelo Garcia. He told me that I was too relaxed and that I would need to step it up if I wanted to really be ready for a competition. He was totally right. Just giving myself permission to force the fight to go where I wanted it to go made a huge difference in the game. I used to counter attack, but now I can lead, counter, and defend as needed. It added a whole new dimension to my game.

It was as Marcelo said in Arte Suave (a video magazine): "If you aren't attacking, you are defending, and if you are defending it means that you are losing the fight at that moment."

I had developed this really reactive game from the bottom back when I had lung problems from a rib injury. I couldn't really push myself so I had to develop better timing and really wait for opportunities. The problem is that in a 6-10 minute match, those opportunities do not present themselves too often with a good opponent. So I would lose by a couple of points and never really get into the match.

I never really felt like I was stalling though...just that I was trying to be too "effortless". You know how you watch the really good guys and it looks like they are barely moving? Well, I thought my BJJ needed to look like that. But after Marcelo's pep talk I realized that the good guys DONT look like that when they are fighting guys at their level.

Since I kicked up the aggression, my game has totally changed. On top I don't give any space and on the bottom I am constantly moving to my strongest positions. Most importantly, I am not waiting until the opponent gets his grips before I start to escape...Instead I'm not giving him the grips and forcing him to escape mine instead.

Aggressive means initiating the position changes instead of countering your opponent's actions. It means not being lazy, for example, when someone is bearing down on you in your halfguard trying to flatten you out.

We'll see if all comes together at the Pan Ams...

this is pretty much what im trying to say...for a while i will stop going 100% so that i can slow it down and learn technique, but im gonna go 100% when i do learn basic bjj technique, because i feel that it will step my game up, just like it did for this brown belt

 

[Greoric]

And to further comment on what BullHogGame had to say. Absolutly, I just kind of took it easy with the higher belts. That is what they wanted. I wasn't as intense as i was with the lower belts,comparitivly. But again with the intensity thing, Its not so much spazing or even trying to power your way through something. I completely agree, that may be the worst thing you can do. When I refer to intensity, i mean your number of transitions in a roll. When I roll with most of the guys in my class I don't keep still so that they have that oppurtunity to submit me. I adjust my position rapidly but smartly keeping them on edge. And most of time I'll win through endurance. They won't be able to keep my pace, will try a sloppy submission when they are getting tired and thats usually how I got them.

 

[Murdoch]

lazy and controlled are just as different as intense and spazzing are. there are times to work technique over intensity and times to work intensity with technique. to go hard at all times will only get someone hurt. i would love to compete but i also know that it's really really doubtful that i'll be in Abu Dhabi anytime soon. I roll for fun so i don't always like to go 110%. I'd rather train 4 days a week at 30-70% strength than once a week at 110 becuase i get injured or inadvertantly injure my training partners. For those that want to compete at a higher level then yes you need to train hard more often, but there are others that don't have the same aspirations. what do i know though i only got my first stripe a month ago?

 

[fedor4life]

lazy and controlled are just as different as intense and spazzing are. there are times to work technique over intensity and times to work intensity with technique. to go hard at all times will only get someone hurt. i would love to compete but i also know that it's really really doubtful that i'll be in Abu Dhabi anytime soon. I roll for fun so i don't always like to go 110%. I'd rather train 4 days a week at 30-70% strength than once a week at 110 becuase i get injured or inadvertantly injure my training partners. For those that want to compete at a higher level then yes you need to train hard more often, but there are others that don't have the same aspirations. what do i know though i only got my first stripe a month ago?

i really think that going all out will only get u injured if someone one or both people dont know what they are doing...i mean i used to go all out in wrestling everyday and never got injured

 

[fedor4life]

but can anyone dispute the fact that although u guys might not like having spazzes in your bjj class, it definately gets u ready for a real street fight

 

[fightme]

Here's my two cents...

If everything is equal size and strength then the guy with the better technique has the advantage. Remember BJJ was designed to allow a smaller guy to be able to beat a stronger guy with technique not strength.

I guess the larger question is what are you looking for in your training sessions. How do you judge a successful training session? Is it based on how many times you submit your partner or by how much you learn in your training. Keep in mind your partner may have a different idea of what is a successful training session. To be honest I often learn more about my own BJJ game when I get beat by an advanced guy(I steal techniques all the time).

The main reason most guys slow down is so they can get a feel of the "flow" in order to apply technique. Furthermore the more fatigue I am the worst my technique.

Fedor4life it sounds like your wrestling background and conditioning put you on par(or even above) guys who have been training for 6 months. So all the more reason for you to focus on technique because you can always fall back on your wrestling and conditioning if you need it.

Bottomline..if you want to roll hard and just tell your training partner you want to roll hard. If he's down then it go for it.

 

[Greoric]

Amen! Good god lets eat!

 

[thewaterchapter]

But again with the intensity thing, Its not so much spazing or even trying to power your way through something. I completely agree, that may be the worst thing you can do. When I refer to intensity, i mean your number of transitions in a roll.

thats all i was saying man. i refered to spazzing as simply trying to power your way through everything, without using technique.

also, you said you go 'lighter' with higher belts, and 'harder with noobs,' what is your reasoning for this?

 

[thewaterchapter]

but can anyone dispute the fact that although u guys might not like having spazzes in your bjj class, it definately gets u ready for a real street fight

and yes, thats another good point. i love tapping out the crazy spazz wreslter guy... but fedor, all im saying is... yes, roll with intensity, but when youre still so new to BJJ, pay as much attention as you possibly can to technique. thats all.

if you get technique down right away (and yes, wrestling technique is different from BJJ technique), then it will exponentially pay off in the long run.

 

[triso]

but can anyone dispute the fact that although u guys might not like having spazzes in your bjj class, it definately gets u ready for a real street fight

I think that going against someone who goes 100% is a great training method for the street. It

 

[Greoric]

thats all i was saying man. i refered to spazzing as simply trying to power your way through everything, without using technique.

also, you said you go 'lighter' with higher belts, and 'harder with noobs,' what is your reasoning for this?

Right well, I was under the impression that you thought any heightened activity was spazzing. I'm glad we finally agree

Secondly, I roll easy with the black and brown belts because they usually ask me to. They tend to be the most traditional, and I don't want to offend them by going intense when they've asked me not too. The lower belts, however, tend to be less traditional so I don't feel like i should not get a good intense match going. If they asked me not to go live, and gave me a percentage, then I would respect that as well.

I would happily go live with the higher belts in a second. They just never seem to want to.

 

[fedor4life]

Here's my two cents...

If everything is equal size and strength then the guy with the better technique has the advantage. Remember BJJ was designed to allow a smaller guy to be able to beat a stronger guy with technique not strength.

I guess the larger question is what are you looking for in your training sessions. How do you judge a successful training session? Is it based on how many times you submit your partner or by how much you learn in your training. Keep in mind your partner may have a different idea of what is a successful training session. To be honest I often learn more about my own BJJ game when I get beat by an advanced guy(I steal techniques all the time).

The main reason most guys slow down is so they can get a feel of the "flow" in order to apply technique. Furthermore the more fatigue I am the worst my technique.

Fedor4life it sounds like your wrestling background and conditioning put you on par(or even above) guys who have been training for 6 months. So all the more reason for you to focus on technique because you can always fall back on your wrestling and conditioning if you need it.

Bottomline..if you want to roll hard and just tell your training partner you want to roll hard. If he's down then it go for it.

thanks for the intelligent reply

 

[fedor4life]

and yes, thats another good point. i love tapping out the crazy spazz wreslter guy... but fedor, all im saying is... yes, roll with intensity, but when youre still so new to BJJ, pay as much attention as you possibly can to technique. thats all.

if you get technique down right away (and yes, wrestling technique is different from BJJ technique), then it will exponentially pay off in the long run.

word, thanks for the advice