Again modern boxing vs older boxing

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Bob Foster was a dominating, hard hitting heavyweight in his day. Frazier squashed him like a roach and I'm certain he'd do the same to Beterbiev and Bivol.
As far as today's heavyweights goes, I think it's a matter of styles. Frazier would be just a bad matchup for Usyk stylistically. Someone like Agit Kabayel wouldn't have much success against Frazier either.

Why is Bivol even in the discussion? What does he have to keep Frazier honest? This is a guy who defeated Muhammad Ali.

Foster had already been KO'd more than once before he fought Frazier by guys like Doug Jones & Ernie Terrell which makes the feat look a lot less impressive.

Stylistically Frazier is a difficult fight for Usyk, at least on paper, but they're not the same size. Frazier would be a light heavyweight today. Usyk is a natural cruiserweight that's beating guys that are realistically super heavyweights.

 

[defjaam]

Foster had already been KO'd more than once before he fought Frazier by guys like Doug Jones & Ernie Terrell which makes the feat look a lot less impressive.

Stylistically Frazier is a difficult fight for Usyk, at least on paper, but they're not the same size. Frazier would be a light heavyweight today. Usyk is a natural cruiserweight that's beating guys that are realistically super heavyweights.

Light heavyweight is 168-175. What makes you think that Frazier could slim down so much? Lol

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Light heavyweight is 168-175. Why makes you think that Frazier could slim down so much? Lol

Its upper limit is 175. We've had guys bigger than Frazier cut to LHW. Of course he could try cruiser (200 lbs) but he'd be smaller than all of his opponents. Either way, the point is that he wouldn't be a heavyweight today.

 

[defjaam]

Its upper limit is 175. We've had guys bigger than Frazier cut to LHW. Of course he could try cruiser (200 lbs) but he'd be smaller than all of his opponents. Either way, the point is that he wouldn't be a heavyweight today.

I don't get how someone who's ripped at 205 pounds and ready to go 15 rounds could go down 30 pounds lighter. He'd lose all his power and energy.

Also how does that fit in with the earlier mentioned "modern training methods and nutrition", which sounds like he could weigh 280 pounds today while still maintaining his speed and stamina? I mean make up your mind.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I don't get how someone who's ripped at 205 pounds and ready to go 15 rounds could go down 30 pounds lighter. He'd lose all his power and energy.

Also how does that fit in with the earlier mentioned "modern training methods and nutrition", which sounds like he could weigh 280 pounds today while still maintaining his speed and stamina? I mean make up your mind.

He wasn't ripped at 205. Remember he'd be cutting down, dropping the water weight, and would be able to put most if not all of it back on before the fight. Recently we've had guys like Zurdo Ramirez cut to 175 and still weigh like 203 lbs on fight night. If the cut is done right you'll maintain your speed, stamina, and power. At least 90% of it. Modern sports science advancements bro.

 

[mozfonky]

Don't know how Joe would make it to 175, he was heavier as a teen than he was a a boxer, he originally went to the gym to lose weight. Ali asked him about that in a taped scenario that Ali put in his book, I think Ali was hinting that joe wasn't that big, but Joe told him, "I was always heavy" and reminded Ali that he was the smaller guy as a young pro.

And if Joe was just a LHW all along, why did he just run through Foster like shit through a goose? Same thing for the naturally much smaller Jimmy Ellis who was a natural middleweight.

One thing about Foster, he was a gutsy, tough guy, with balls of steel. He knew "i shouldn't have been fighting those guys" but he wanted the money. He was a mean SOB too, he was the only fighter who ever cut Ali and had Ali staggered more than just about any of his early 70s opponents.

It should tell us something that the great LHW couldn't do anything in that era, even with smaller heavyweights and then a few years later, Michael Spinks and Michael Moorer were winning titles.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Don't know how Joe would make it to 175, he was heavier as a teen than he was a a boxer, he originally went to the gym to lose weight. Ali asked him about that in a taped scenario that Ali put in his book, I think Ali was hinting that joe wasn't that big, but Joe told him, "I was always heavy" and reminded Ali that he was the smaller guy as a young pro.

And if Joe was just a LHW all along, why did he just run through Foster like shit through a goose? Same thing for the naturally much smaller Jimmy Ellis who was a natural middleweight.

One thing about Foster, he was a gutsy, tough guy, with balls of steel. He knew "i shouldn't have been fighting those guys" but he wanted the money. He was a mean SOB too, he was the only fighter who ever cut Ali and had Ali staggered more than just about any of his early 70s opponents.

It should tell us something that the great LHW couldn't do anything in that era, even with smaller heavyweights and then a few years later, Michael Spinks and Michael Moorer were winning titles.

What we're saying in this thread is that Frazier was a (small) heavyweight back then but a half century later he wouldn't be fighting at heavyweight. It isn't even realistic with the monsters around now. He was only like 5'11 and had a small frame for a heavyweight. As for modern weight cutting the guy on the left (red) used to fight at 170 lbs in the UFC. It was a bitch for him to make it, and he even passed out before trying to make the limit, but he fought there.

 

[Pierce 34]

A 80s tyson would destroy Tyson Fury

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

A 80s tyson would destroy Tyson Fury

Hate to break it to you but Mike has too much sentimental attachment to Tyson Fury since he was named after him. Call it a soft spot. He even picked Fury to beat Usyk in the rematch solely for that reason.

“Usyk is the best heavyweight in the world at the moment. But I’m going for Fury to beat him," Mike Tyson affirmed to the Daily Mail.

"Why? Because I’m a fan. Because his father gave him my name. I’m not abandoning him now.”

Oleksandr Usyk vs Tyson Fury predictions: Mike Tyson, Anthony Joshua, Lennox Lewis and more give verdict with stunning KO on the cards

 

[Pierce 34]

Hate to break it to you but Mike has too much sentimental attachment to Tyson Fury since he was named after him. Call it a soft spot. He even picked Fury to beat Usyk in the rematch solely for that reason.

“Usyk is the best heavyweight in the world at the moment. But I’m going for Fury to beat him," Mike Tyson affirmed to the Daily Mail.

"Why? Because I’m a fan. Because his father gave him my name. I’m not abandoning him now.”

Oleksandr Usyk vs Tyson Fury predictions: Mike Tyson, Anthony Joshua, Lennox Lewis and more give verdict with stunning KO on the cards

Prime tyson or prime riddick bowe?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Prime tyson or prime riddick bowe?

Double KO. It's extremely rare but possible.

 

[MRudi]

That being said, at LHW, Joe Frazier would be a menace. Not saying he’d win every fight but he’s not getting crushed by anybody. Stop it.

I mean - Beterbiev is so menancing.
The way he got hit by Ali and George Foreman? If you can't defend it, you are gonna lie down.
And Frazier never ever have been on the level of Bivol in defense.

 

[TheGreatA]

I feel like's Joe's skills get underrated often because his main rival was Ali who made everyone he fought look like a clumsy piece of crap. Compared to the average heavyweight he was way faster and more skillful. That's why he pretty much steamrolled all the smaller guys because he'd be on you like a cheap suit and that left hook was incredibly quick. His conditioning was obviously off the charts to be able to keep up that pressure and volume and constant bobbing & weaving for 15 rounds.

 

[mozfonky]

I feel like's Joe's skills get underrated often because his main rival was Ali who made everyone he fought look like a clumsy piece of crap. Compared to the average heavyweight he was way faster and more skillful. That's why he pretty much steamrolled all the smaller guys because he'd be on you like a cheap suit and that left hook was incredibly quick. His conditioning was obviously off the charts to be able to keep up that pressure and volume and constant bobbing & weaving for 15 rounds.

one of my favorite fighters to watch for defense, no one like him really. He would use headmovement, cross arm defense and he'd pick off punches in between all that, beautiful. Ali was misinformed when they fought, he was expecting someone there for him to hit and came out saying he was the hardest thing in the world to hit. A guy that short and that aggressive is gonna take punishment though, he couldn't do like Ali and let his height and reach do some of his work for him.

Word was Eddie Futch taught him most of that but I've always been a little skeptical of that and think Joe developed some of it on his own. He wasn't the same fighter as a young pro though so something changed.