ADCC rules question. Why in first half no positive points?

[snowdale]

Tell me please, what is the point of this rule?

 

[randomg1t]

so that people would take risks and try to get the finish without the fear of their opponent getting points.

 

[snowdale]

so that people would take risks and try to get the finish without the fear of their opponent getting points.

Thanks. Though what I've seen in 2015 ADCC was kinda not like that most of the time. It was the second half where action started.

 

[randomg1t]

Thanks. Though what I've seen in 2015 ADCC was kinda not like that most of the time. It was the second half where action started.

sometimes it works out that way.

the -1 point guard rule is supposed to give the competitors some incentive to fight for the top position, but the real effect has been 20+ minutes of shitty hand fighting and sprawling in the finals. sometimes rules don't work out the way they're supposed to.

i like the no-scoring period, i think it's a good rule. the -1 kinda sucks though, because it overrides the no-scoring rule in the finals and just makes for shitty matches.

 

[rmongler]

Yeah, the problem was not any one rule in particular, but that when combined they contradicted each other, resulting in no action (why work for a takedown if its not going to score, anyways)?

 

[mataleaos]

The idea was to encourage people to go for submissions and not worry about getting swept or reversed in the process for points against them. It usually works. This ADCC had an unusually low number of submissions. Most adccs have a lot if submissions and 2009 and 2011 had a ton.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Used to be fine, but the finales sucked so bad because they added the -1 in the no scoring time so basically you could lose by points in the first half but you couldn't win by points. Horrible retarded rule.

 

[mataleaos]

Used to be fine, but the finales sucked so bad because they added the -1 in the no scoring time so basically you could lose by points in the first half but you couldn't win by points. Horrible retarded rule.

I'd love to track down exactly when this started. I've seen people say it was there all along but the first time I remember it was 2011 when Cobrinha lost to Rafa Mendes in the finals -1 to 0 because he pulled closed guard as Rafa attacked a single.

The reason I don't think it was earlier is because there were awesome finals matches from 05-09 that didn't look like they penalized guard pulls. In 09 in particular the Rafa Mendes/Cobrinha final, the Marcelo Garcia/Pablo Popovitch final, and the Andre Galvao/Braulio Estima final were all barn burners. None of those matches had any type of scared to pull guard going on in the first half of the match.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Used to be fine, but the finales sucked so bad because they added the -1 in the no scoring time so basically you could lose by points in the first half but you couldn't win by points. Horrible retarded rule.

The thing I don't understand is why ADCC competitors with deficient takedowns don't just accept the -1 and work for a sweep or sub anyway. Like, does Vinny really think he's going to take down Orlando Sanchez? Why not just pull guard instead of subjecting himself to the continuous beating he took by having to turtle over and over again, and slowly losing by refs decision?

 

[rmongler]

The thing I don't understand is why ADCC competitors with deficient takedowns don't just accept the -1 and work for a sweep or sub anyway. Like, does Vinny really think he's going to take down Orlando Sanchez? Why not just pull guard instead of subjecting himself to the continuous beating he took by having to turtle over and over again, and slowly losing by refs decision?

Its taking maybe over a guarantee.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

The thing I don't understand is why ADCC competitors with deficient takedowns don't just accept the -1 and work for a sweep or sub anyway. Like, does Vinny really think he's going to take down Orlando Sanchez? Why not just pull guard instead of subjecting himself to the continuous beating he took by having to turtle over and over again, and slowly losing by refs decision?

The problem is that you cannot get the -1 back, you pull guard you get the penalty, but you cannot score positive points, this means you have to sub the guy... In the preliminar rounds, there's no points or negative points in the first half, and in the second half there are negative AND positive points, so you pull guard take the negative 1 but at least you can get it back with a sweep...

 

[trustdoesntrust]

The problem is that you cannot get the -1 back, you pull guard you get the penalty, but you cannot score positive points, this means you have to sub the guy... In the preliminar rounds, there's no points or negative points in the first half, and in the second half there is a negative AND positive points, so you pull guard take the negative 1 but at least you can get it back with a sweep...

So you're saying that in the medal rounds if you pull you're stuck on -1 no matter what, and even if you sweep you still don't get the 2 points (getting to +1)? Would you get points if you pulled guard (-1) then took the back?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

So you're saying that in the medal rounds if you pull you're stuck on -1 no matter what, and even if you sweep you still don't get the 2 points (getting to +1)? Would you get points if you pulled guard (-1) then took the back?

Yes basically.

And Nop, you won't get points no matter what position you achieve. In Medal matches, you get a -1 in the first part of the match, and you have to Sub the other person or will lose, unless the other person fucks up even bigger than you and for some reason decides to even the match my pulling guard himself also...

 

[yetanother]

Yes basically.

And Nop, you won't get points no matter what position you achieve. In Medal matches, you get a -1 in the first part of the match, and you have to Sub the other person or will lose, unless the other person fucks up even bigger than you and for some reason decides to even the match my pulling guard himself also...

You can still score in the second part of the match.

 

[mataleaos]

Yes basically.

And Nop, you won't get points no matter what position you achieve. In Medal matches, you get a -1 in the first part of the match, and you have to Sub the other person or will lose, unless the other person fucks up even bigger than you and for some reason decides to even the match my pulling guard himself also...

Damn people really get confused on this.

ADCC points go like this.

1. non finals matches - no positive or negative points for first half of match; positive and negative points for 2nd half of match. In overtime both positive and negative points are in play the whole time.

2. finals matches - no positive points for first half of match, negative points for entire match. In overtime both positive and negative points are in play the whole time.

And that's all there is to it. So you can most definitely score in the 2nd half of a finals match. Marcelo Garcia lost to Pablo Popovitch in the 2009 finals because Pablo passed with 10 seconds left and held for 3-4 seconds before Marcelo reguarded so Pablo got points for the guard pass.

 

[randomg1t]

Yes basically.

And Nop, you won't get points no matter what position you achieve. In Medal matches, you get a -1 in the first part of the match, and you have to Sub the other person or will lose, unless the other person fucks up even bigger than you and for some reason decides to even the match my pulling guard himself also...

of course you can score, but only in the second half of the match. which is still stupid, but less so than what you're implying.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Damn people really get confused on this.

ADCC points go like this.

1. non finals matches - no positive or negative points for first half of match; positive and negative points for 2nd half of match. In overtime both positive and negative points are in play the whole time.

2. finals matches - no positive points for first half of match, negative points for entire match. In overtime both positive and negative points are in play the whole time.

And that's all there is to it. So you can most definitely score in the 2nd half of a finals match. Marcelo Garcia lost to Pablo Popovitch in the 2009 finals because Pablo passed with 10 seconds left and held for 3-4 seconds before Marcelo reguarded so Pablo got points for the guard pass.

so, just to be clear, if you pull guard and get the -1 point in a medal match you can still sweep in the second half of the match and get +2, back take for +3, etc?

 

[mataleaos]

so, just to be clear, if you pull guard and get the -1 point in a medal match you can still sweep in the second half of the match and get +2, back take for +3, etc?

Yes totally.

They don't work like advantages. So if you pulled guard in the finals and took a -1 and you swept someone in the 2nd half or overtime, you'd be up 1 to 0 (assuming they didn't score on you).

Since the finals are the only matches where the negative points for guard pulling are in play the whole match, that's why many of the matches are exciting and then the finals just come to a crawl. I don't remember it ever being like that in 05, 07, or 09. I wasn't training in 03 and I don't remember much of those finals besides Marcelo winning gold with a rnc and Lister winning the absolute with a heel hook. Maybe it's always been like this but it doesn't seem that way.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Yes totally.

They don't work like advantages. So if you pulled guard in the finals and took a -1 and you swept someone in the 2nd half or overtime, you'd be up 1 to 0 (assuming they didn't score on you).

Since the finals are the only matches where the negative points for guard pulling are in play the whole match, that's why many of the matches are exciting and then the finals just come to a crawl. I don't remember it ever being like that in 05, 07, or 09. I wasn't training in 03 and I don't remember much of those finals besides Marcelo winning gold with a rnc and Lister winning the absolute with a heel hook. Maybe it's always been like this but it doesn't seem that way.

well then, i come back to my original question: why don't more of these wrestling-challenged guys just pull guard and take the -1? for example, i feel like rafa would have had a decent chance of sweeping cobrinha in their interminable 2013 final, but he had no chance of getting a takedown and thus lost the refs decision. seems all the more strange considering that guys don't seem to mind taking the penalty for double guard pulling in IBJJF matches.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

just a question about no points in the first half

-if you achieve mount/back during no points period and you hold the position for a while and your opponent is unable to escape and you hold it till its time for points, will you eventually be awarded points or will you still not be awarded for the positions since it was achieved during no points time period?