Action movie with submission fighting scenes?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by aRCHIDAMOS, Jan 28, 2006.

  1. aRCHIDAMOS

    aRCHIDAMOS Guest

    I have watched recently Ong-Bak 2, and although I love this movie (as well as the first one), I find the fighting scenes completely one-dimensioned. Since the first UFC, everyony in the martial arts world knows that a fight can (and probably will) end in the ground, where karate katas or TKD kicks have no place. Instead, there are new aspects, control of the opponent, reversals, armbars, leglocks and chokes...
    "Why all these, like we dont know", you may ask, fellow sherdogger... Because, I think that I have never watched an action film with groundfighting scenes, submissions, and all that... Do you know any?

    And plz, do not mention all these steven-seagal-is-a-tough-m$%^fucker aikido movies...
     
  2. Darwinist

    Darwinist Super Simian

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    One or two of Van Damme´s recent straight-to-video stinkers have some MMA/BJJ influenced scenes in the. Try seeking out "Derailed" and "In hell".

    Also, a few movies have featured little bits of submission type fighting.

    I´ve spotted the following.

    A heelhook/kneebar combo in the last Samurai
    An Omoplata in Blade: Trinity
    A triangle choke in Lethal Weapon(but everyone knows that!)
    A rear naked choke in Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers(executed by Gollum on Frodo)
    An armbar in Enter the Dragon
    A rear naked choke in Training Day(one of the most realistic streetfighting scenes I´ve seen)

    Any others? We haven´t done this type of thread in awhile.....
     
  3. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    Watch "The Eliminator" starring Bas Rutten.
     
  4. Coach Couzo

    Coach Couzo Orange Belt

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    Mr. and Mrs. Smith

    There's a scene of Mr. Smith in a MMA gym. His opponent applies an armbar from mount.

    Another scene, Mrs. Smith goes for a guillotine while Mr. Smith is in her guard.
     
  5. aRCHIDAMOS

    aRCHIDAMOS Guest

    I have seen some scenes from the eliminator (the google video, posted somewhere in the media section). Quite disappointing and uninspired, IMHO... I mean, what is that? Some spinning air kicks (pretty unoriginal), one or two armbars and a kneebar (and a RNC maybe?), no reversals, no escapes, no setups before the submission, you know, the stuff we like while watching MMA or grappling matches. Most of El Guapo's fights in Pancrase were much more impressive than the action scenes in the movie! Maybe it was just that video I watched and the movie is fine, I dont know - and please, dont get me wrong: I am a fan of Bas.
    What I (we) really need is long enough groundfighting scenes. Are there any?
    I guess, not enough. In fact, even if BJJ or Sambo are pretty effective in the cage, thay are not as impressive to the eye (especially to the eyes of the average viewer) as combos of air spinning kicks and other acrobatic moves... For the same reason I believe that a fight of (let's say) Minotauro from his back against a bigger opponent in Pride is not as impressive (TO THE AVERAGE GUY, not an MMA fan, I repeat) as a boxing match.
     
  6. sir037

    sir037 Forever Noob

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    Just seeing Marco Ruas and Bas on the screen was more than enough for me. I'll buy No Rules, even if it isn't all that great. The more we support the sport, the more we'll see of it in the future.

    Master Of The Flying Guillotine had different MMA aspects :icon_lol:
     
  7. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    Sha Po Lang, altough it's a chinese movie (by Donnie Yen), it has triangles, slams, armbars, wristlocks... Not as smooth as real jujitsu, but still, you see the director has done his homework and tried to integrate groundwork in the fights.
     
  8. ClubberLange

    ClubberLange Green Belt

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    Lethal weapon 1!
    Rroian Gracie directed the action scenes I think.
    Watch Mel's devastating triangle
    I remember when I was little, thinking "what the fuck is he supposed to be doing there?"
     
  9. Flibb

    Flibb Uwe Boll fan

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    Danny Glovers comments "break his god damn neck" reminds me on the usual UFC fan.
     
  10. vitor3000

    vitor3000 Blue Belt

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    lol. Its not Ong Bak 2 its called like Tom yum goong. That movie is sick especially with the capoeria vs kung fu or w/e.
     
  11. muaythaifolife

    muaythaifolife Blue Belt

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    Paul Walker gets a guillotine from the guard on Tyrese in 2F2F... sorry freaken movie though!
     
  12. aRCHIDAMOS

    aRCHIDAMOS Guest

    Yes, I know, I know... Ong bak 2 is an euphemism, in fact the story has nothing to do with ong-bak, but other than that, the director and the actors are pretty much the same.
    But that's the topic of another thread, I guess! :icon_conf
     
  13. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    I understand what you're getting at, but I mean, come on; how much technique is there going to be before you're just watching MMA? People who haven't trained aren't going to know what's going on, so they're not going to appreciate the intricasies of a perfectly timed Matador guard pass to knee mount, where the top man waits ever-so-patiently for the right hand placement before going for an armbar. The majority of an audience for a movie is just going to appreciate seeing people get hit, and maybe once in a while a limb broken or choked out. Weapons also usually come into play.

    If you're going to apply to the MMA audience, here's what you do: put together an MMA event. Otherwise, you're going to have to settle for some small elements of MMA in a movie which focuses more on a solid plotline.

    Besides, have you ever shown the untrained eye a BJJ or Sambo match? People who haven't seen or experienced what these arts can do think it looks like sex. Plain and simple. What if, say, just for a minute, there was another completely NHB rules fight; anything goes, and some mystical style that defied the laws of aliveness and everything we thought we knew about fighting came from some unexpected country, like the United Arab Emirates, and it totally destroyed MMA and all single styles? But, what if this art was based around a position where two fighters are liplocked? Those of us who are used to MMA would think "Oh God, he's kissing him! Gross!" But to these martial artists, they've somehow found a way to beat up people with their lips.

    Obviously, it's a ridiculously hypothetical idea. Please don't think I'm saying the above is even possible. But now, I've shown my point, in that people who haven't watched MMA or aren't martial arts enthusiasts think the ground positions look erotic, and for good reason: the only time they're in positions like that is, well, when they're having sex. People aren't used to moving on the ground, let alone fighting on it.

    Long post but I had to get some thoughts out. I'm sick and bored out of my skull because I can't train in any way.
     
  14. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    Also, again, to restate a point, to the untrained eye it's just a fight. People don't watch the set ups, or how the fight got there; they assume it happened that way and one fighter just happened to get lucky and be able to pull something off.

    I've heard comments before from people totally new to MMA that sound something like "The fight will be on the ground, and one guy will just be dominating the other, but at any moment the other fighter can pull a submission out of nowhere!" Those of us who watch or train MMA know that submissions do NOT come out of nowhere, that there is a set-up to the position. So what difference is it going to make to the audience whether Bas breaks guard correctly before spinning to a kneebar, or whether the fight just happens there? If anything, the producers are going to avoid people saying "Gross, they're doing it!" by just avoiding the guard and cutting right to the snapping knee.
     
  15. possenti

    possenti I knew all the rules-but the rules did not know me

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    Several years ago, I remember seeing a short movie on the Independent Film Channel that prominantly featured BJJ. I think it even starred a Gracie - I can't remember which one. It was about a hitman, and it only lasted about 45 minutes to an hour.

    Anyone know what I'm talking about???
     
  16. sir037

    sir037 Forever Noob

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    Damn, I can't believe I forgot about Brazilian Brawl

    It's got Dan Inosanto and pratically all of the Machados. I haven't seen it yet though.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0373734/

    "Gravity-Defying Latino Martial Arts Action" :icon_chee
     
  17. Dante of the De

    Dante of the De Green Belt

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    In a triangle, going to sleep...
    Lol thats for that horrible image, good point though.

    The only one i can think of is Ryan Reynolds puts HHH in an armbar in Blade Trinity
     
  18. sambosteve

    sambosteve Purple Belt

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    Here's one I bet you never expected to be put on this thread...

    "Blood on the Sun" - James Cagney, 1943


    The fight scenes in Blood on the Sun all involve judo. Cagney trained in the art extensively and even kept it up in his private life, writing in his memoirs, "I grew so fond of judo I used to keep in shape with it until a back injury I picked up doing something else put me on the sidelines." Cagney's judo instructor was a former L.A. cop named John Halloran, who in the film has a small role as Japanese "Captain Oshima." (In a sign of the paranoia of wartime America, Halloran resigned from the LAPD after the police commission sent FBI agents to investigate him because his favorite sport was judo.)

    Below is an excerpt from one of these non-asian actors made to look Japanese. His name is Patrick Keelaghan and had a small stand-in part earlier in the movie.

    Keelaghan subsequently takes part in the filming of Blood on the Sun, United Artists, Cagney Productions, June 1945. The Library of Congress description summarizes this film as follows: "An American newspaper editor working in pre-World War II Japan tries to expose the menace of a Japanese militarist plan ('Tanaka plan') for world conquest." For further details, see http://us.imdb.com/Title?Blood+on+the+Sun+(1945).

    In one of the Dojo scenes they wanted some judo men to fill up the background, doing breakfalls and Randori, as you get in the real thing, so they have a lot of Koreans and Phillipinos who know a little judo, but [technical advisor Jack] Sergel spoke to the casting director and what do you know, 'Patrick' himself is asked to come along and give a hand. So over I went to the studios, they darken my hair (temporarily), put a whole lot of goo on my face, fiddle around with my eyebrows, and before long what do you know, you have another Japanese, with the one incongruity, out of the midst of the yellow skin and black hair there looms the biggest pair of bright blue eyes you ever saw in the whole of Ireland. A Japanese with blue eyes, it will make medical history. The part we had was the background to the scene, where [star James] Cagney comes from a neighbouring studio to give a demonstration of some throws with another Japanese and he does the Seoenagi [sic] three times. Then we rise and do Randori. Whether they cut it out or not I don't know. All I might add is that for my three hours' fooling around the studio on a Saturday afternoon when I should have been doing nothing anyway, I received the sum of $35, and that was not to be sneezed at!

    As for the other members in the scene, the big [Los Angeles] Police [Department] fellow [Jack Sergel] is not there -- he's our teacher and is a third Dan. The Japanese fellow that Cagney throws is really a Japanese [American] and is now in the [US] Army; he is a third Kyu, but very strong and has only been at it for a short time. The other blue-eyed fellow in our scene, who heads our row with a Black Belt, is Cagney's double in the film; he is the first Dan I spoke of [in a previous letter] and is very good. The fellow between him and myself (when we were seated) had on a Black Belt, but he is only a third Kyu and is from some other Dojo; I don't think he is so good. Then there was myself. On my right were a number of Koreans [EN3] and the others are young lads and not very good, but they seem to be able to do the forward rolls very well. In the rolling part of the scene you may see an older man seated on the edge of the mat - he is supposed to be a third Dan and got graded in the Philippines, but he never was at our place, so I do not know; anyway he is too old to work at it by now and he could not do the rolls, so he sat on the corner and watched. The senior instructor who introduces the exhibitionists is not a judo man nor is he a Japanese. He had to learn the words from Sergel, but he is a character actor and is around the picture all the way through. So now, when you see the picture you will know what the people are like and you will see how much trouble we have to throw our teacher, who weighs around 220 lb. or so.
     
  19. Dr. BadAss

    Dr. BadAss Guest

    Sean Patrick Flanery (Powder and Boondock Saints) trains at my academy and is a purple belt. They're in the processes of starting Boondock Saints 2 and he said the writers wanted to "put a guy's head in a scissors lock." Of course, Sean will change that and put some jiu jitsu in. So keep an eye out when the movie is released.
     
  20. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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