About Flat Earth..

[liljoe]

So the earth may be flat, but the moon and all the other celestial objects we can personally see with telescopes are globes?
Can someone reconcile that?

 

[msh2]

Enjoyed this thread.

Where is the list of corrupt scientists, engineers and politicians who are in on this scam? And pilots, I forgot about them. We need to shine a spotight on these people. There must be tens of thousands of them by now.

And why are flat earthers so scared of straight lines?

 

[jmag]

I do not believe anything. I don't believe the earth is flat, and I don't believe the earth is a globe. What I can accept is that there are questions on the Flat Earth side that haven't and most likely cannot be answered by the mainstream thought. The truth is none of us actually know for sure whether it is either or. We haven't seen tangible proof for ourselves.. With our own eyes. Never will.

Can only speculate.

There is redundant tangible proof the earth is globular already forgotten in this thread. Just consider circumpolar stars at north and south poles. When shown these things, Scyther just says people are lying about them and faking imagery. Flat earth denies gravity, has no sensible explanation for it, yet it, motion, orbits, etc., can be accurately modeled in Newtonian mechanics. Take seasons. No explanation WHY the sun flies so over flat earth, but earth orbiting sun at a tilt explains seasons perfectly. What is the flat earth explanation for tides? Again moon orbiting earth, tidal gravity explains the tides...

 

[Scyther]

Relax. Every once and awhile when I see the flat earth pop up in the front of Sherdog you get my juices flowing.

Just a little rub.

And regarding Bible verses. No. When I see people using the Bible out of context (not rightly dividing the word of truth) I just ignore them. I am not here to fix people's false perceptions of the Bible.

I contrasted your train of thought regarding the Bible and salvation. That's all that matters.

Perhaps I was too defensive my bad. Have a good day.

 

[Scyther]

I don't lie on forums, you can go back through my post history and ask others that know me. I've been posting here for over a decade, I grew up in Seattle and my whole family lives there. I'm sure I have talked about Seattle a multitude of times if you want to go back though my posts history.
I'm a avid Seahawks fan, wrestled with Jens Pulver in JC, had a team mate who fought Josh Barnett in amateurs. Do some detective work on me if you feel like it.

I have tons of friends and family in Seattle and that photograph was taken outside of Seattle Dec 13, 2011. (I actually thought it was brand new, it popped up on my Facebook feed and said "Dec 13", I didn't realize it was a "Shared Memory")

Even if you did all the stuff you said you did that doesn't mean you're not lying. To add to that I never said you were lying I simply gave reasons I did not believe you. This is the internet after all anyone can say anything. That being said, I apologize perhaps I jumped to conclusions too quickly.

However, at the end of the day I still don't believe you. What a coincidence that the proof you need to disprove flat Earth miraculously winds up in your Facebook feed.

Some one earlier in the thread said you were saying "2+2=5", that's exactly what you're doing here. We all know how shadows work. If you draw a straight line from the source, past the obstruction, and onto the casting surface, that will show you exactly where the shadow will land. There's no way you can sketch a condition based on the Flat Earth model, that shows this effect.

You would need draw a straight line that starts at 3000 miles up, goes down to 14,410 feet, then goes back up to 30,000 feet. Only MC Escher could draw something like that.
It easy to sketch this in a round earth model.

The distance of the sun changes the angle, of course the sun is not actually below the mountain or equal to it in height. For instance, if the sun right above the mountain the shadow that is produced will me much different then the shadow that's produced when the sun is much further away, I don't see why this is so hard to conceptualize for you. All that needs to happen is for the suns rays to catch the top potion of the mountain and this also explains why the occurrence of this is so rare.

The frequency of this effect has more to do with the cloud condition. You need to have nice flat consistent cloud ceiling at just the right height, and you need clear skies to the east of the mountain to allow the sun to pass through.

Why do you need a "nice consistent cloud ceiling?" Funny thing is I live in Seattle myself and the idea there isn't a "nice consistent cloud ceiling" often is just laughable. This phenomenon or other similar phenomenon should be occurring quite frequently with all this "nice consistent cloud ceiling" that we have out here.

Also, what's "just the right height" that needs to be achieved to get this effect? This is exactly why I don't believe you, you literally just make stuff up. In one of your last post you said that in "your job" you calculate distances and do other stuff but when I pressed you on specifics you had nothing to say whatsoever. We've had a few discussions in the past about flat Earth you've always found a way to duck responding to my questions or resort to name calling.

 

[Scyther]

I do not believe anything. I don't believe the earth is flat, and I don't believe the earth is a globe. What I can accept is that there are questions on the Flat Earth side that haven't and most likely cannot be answered by the mainstream thought. The truth is none of us actually know for sure whether it is either or. We haven't seen tangible proof for ourselves.. With our own eyes. Never will.

Can only speculate.

What questions do you have about the flat Earth model?

 

[Scyther]

Enjoyed this thread.

Where is the list of corrupt scientists, engineers and politicians who are in on this scam? And pilots, I forgot about them. We need to shine a spotight on these people. There must be tens of thousands of them by now.

And why are flat earthers so scared of straight lines?

One of the biggest misconceptions is that there are thousands of people in on some conspiracy, that is simply not true. Pilots and most politicians aside from the literal heads of state need to know about the REAL truth. Why would a pilot need to know about the truth?

Also, why would a flat Earther be afraid of a straight line?

 

[Scyther]

So the earth may be flat, but the moon and all the other celestial objects we can personally see with telescopes are globes?
Can someone reconcile that?

Actually the moon and stars are not "globes" there is in fact no proof of this. Here is footage of the stars from space through a telescope.



The images you've been fed are lies. Even if the so-called planets were round (they aren't) that does NOT prove the Earth is round. Say I walk around and everyone has pimples on their face, does that mean I have pimples on my face? Say everyone has a sign on their back that says "kick me." Does that mean that the sign on my back says the same thing, or I have a sign on my back at all?

 

[Scyther]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/flat-earth-debate-leads-to-fire-police-call-1.3634692

I'll just leave this here

lol I saw this don't know if it's a real story or if it was planted by the fake news media.

 

[TestosterOWN]

Nice insult. Do you have proof of a globe Earth?

Trolling must take a lot of time out of your day. In the end the earth isnt flat and you waste time trolling about it. Hence my mental illness statement. Get help please.

 

[Phlog]

lol I saw this don't know if it's a real story or if it was planted by the fake news media.

You ARE the fake news media.

 

[rj144]

Actually the moon and stars are not "globes" there is in fact no proof of this. Here is footage of the stars from space through a telescope.



The images you've been fed are lies. Even if the so-called planets were round (they aren't) that does NOT prove the Earth is round. Say I walk around and everyone has pimples on their face, does that mean I have pimples on my face? Say everyone has a sign on their back that says "kick me." Does that mean that the sign on my back says the same thing, or I have a sign on my back at all?

My last reply: Explain the banding of clouds on Jupiter or Jupiter's giant red spot if it's not spherical. Explain the rings around the equator of Saturn if it's not spherical. Also, if you believe in planets at all, how do you see them? In the ridiculous flat Earth model, the sun wouldn't reflect light off of them to be seen.

Also, your analogy is not correct. If you walk around this planet and everyone has a face, you can conclude you most likely have a face since it's a product of biology and science. If all the other planets are spheres (which they ARE), the Earth would need to be one giant freak of nature if it was flat (which it's NOT).

 

[Monkadelic]

So ... the Earth is on the back of a tortoise, but then it's turtles all the way down?

I find this hard to believe.

 

[Bat Dad]

Flat earth is more believable than climate change .. some politician said that

 

[eworden78]

Even if you did all the stuff you said you did that doesn't mean you're not lying. To add to that I never said you were lying I simply gave reasons I did not believe you. This is the internet after all anyone can say anything. That being said, I apologize perhaps I jumped to conclusions too quickly.

However, at the end of the day I still don't believe you. What a coincidence that the proof you need to disprove flat Earth miraculously winds up in your Facebook feed.

It's cool I wasn't offended. It's totally rational to question what you hear on the internet. I just wanted to give you some anecdotes to give you some confidence in my claims.

I assure you it was completely random, not that that matters at all to the argument.

The distance of the sun changes the angle, of course the sun is not actually below the mountain or equal to it in height. For instance, if the sun right above the mountain the shadow that is produced will me much different then the shadow that's produced when the sun is much further away, I don't see why this is so hard to conceptualize for you. All that needs to happen is for the suns rays to catch the top potion of the mountain and this also explains why the occurrence of this is so rare.

Yes the angle of the sun does change, but not to a position that would satisfy this effect.
Think of it as a right triangle.

A is the location of the top of the mountain.
B is the location of the Sun
b is the distance of the position of the sun across the flat earth

As b increases the angle at ∠ABC get s smaller(as you said) but it never reaches zero or goes negative. So no matter how far the sun travels, the angle will never drop below the top of the mountain.

You can do the math yourself:
To solve for ∠ABC you use this formula: ∠ABC = sin-1(a/b)
("sin-" represent inverse sin, I use "ASIN()" in Excel)
For example:

Sun height ≈ 3000 miles.
Mt Rainier Height ≈ 2.7 miles
Distance from viewer to 1/4 orbit on Flat Earth Model ≈ 9000 miles

a = 2997.3 = 3000-2.7
b = 9000
∠ABC = 19.5 degrees = 0.34 radians = sin-1(2997.3/9000)

So at the theoretical time of sunset in Flat Earth Model, the sun would be at around 19.5 degrees above horizontal when observed from the top of the mountain.

In order to have a shadow on the underside of cloud cover, you would need to flip the triangle over. But since the Flat Earth Model considers the height of the sun to be a constant, the triangle could never flip over.

Why do you need a "nice consistent cloud ceiling?" Funny thing is I live in Seattle myself and the idea there isn't a "nice consistent cloud ceiling" often is just laughable. This phenomenon or other similar phenomenon should be occurring quite frequently with all this "nice consistent cloud ceiling" that we have out here.

Also, what's "just the right height" that needs to be achieved to get this effect?

If you've been to Seattle, you know that the cloud ceiling is often really low. You can't see mountains, you can't see sunsets, sometimes you can barely see the end of the street. When we first moved to Washington, it was in the winter and we didn't see Mt Rainier for the first month we lived there. It was constantly obscured by clouds.

Mt Rainier is 14,410 ft. For this effect you need a consistent cloud cover around 14,000 to maybe 25,000 feet.(I don't know the exact upper limit but I think this should be pretty close) If the clouds are too low the mountain is shrouded in clouds, and the sunset is blocked. If the clouds are too high the the shadow won't reach them, or will be too spread out to be noticeable. If the clouds are uneven like cumulus clouds, the shadow won't be well defined. Most importantly you need to have a break in the clouds to the east of the mountain. If there's no cloud break, no sunny skies to the east, there won't be any sunlight filtering through to cast the shadow.

This is exactly why I don't believe you, you literally just make stuff up. In one of your last post you said that in "your job" you calculate distances and do other stuff but when I pressed you on specifics you had nothing to say whatsoever. We've had a few discussions in the past about flat Earth you've always found a way to duck responding to my questions or resort to name calling.

I don't recall name calling(it's possible I have, it is the internet), and I've tried to be thorough in my responses. I did call Flat Earth theory "bullshit", which I firmly believe it is. That's not a direct insult to you, I know a lot of good smart people who believe some things that are "bullshit".

I think you missed this post where I responded to the inquiry.

Like I said earlier to daryldeal. I'm only pointing out one particularly damning flaw in the Flat Earth model.
I didn't use any jargon, I was just suggesting the various methods by which anyone can solve it on their own.

Here's some details.
Human visual acuity(20/20 vision) is approximately 1 arc minute or 1/60 of a degree.
That is the angle of acuity by which a human can differentiate two points. So if you drew two dots on a piece of paper and moved back until you could barely make out the gap between dots.
The triangle that would be from the two dots to the center of your pupil would be about 1/60th of a degree.
Using basic trig, the ratio of the the height of the triangle to the length of the triangle legs is about 1/3437.

Using this math I know at my job that a display with 1mm dot pitch will start to show pixels at around 3437mm(11.2ft) away.
If we go by the Flat Earth Wiki, the sun is 3000 mile high elevation, and 34 miles in diameter.
On a flat earth, the sun would need to be 3000*3437 = 10,311,000
miles from the observer before it essentially reached the vanishing point.
That is about 860 times the proposed diameter of the sun's path in Flat Earth model.
Using the same math the sun would have shrunken to pinpoint of light at about 116,858
miles.

This is the math I use to spec multimillion dollar displays, and that eyecare professionals use to diagnose visual acuity. You can go ask your eye doctor.
There are all sorts of problems with the Flat Earth model, I'm only focusing on this one issue because it's very easy to confirm.

I need to head home now, but I can show more later, I can do diagrams about how eyes and perspective work, I can show you a 3D rendering. Let me know it's really easy stuff.

Like I've said multiple times, let me know what you want clarification on. I'm writing these responses for fun, in between breaks. So I don't include all the details and specifics up front. If there's anything you need clarification or elaboration on, I'm happy to indulge.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I'm starting to believe.

 

[Kenshi]

@Scyther - Have you been to the ocean/coast? You can clearly see the curvature from the beach with your own eyes as you look at the horizon. How would you explain that?

 

[Scyther]

@Scyther - Have you been to the ocean/coast? You can clearly see the curvature from the beach with your own eyes as you look at the horizon. How would you explain that?

That's just not true. So where's your proof?

 

[Scyther]

I'm starting to believe.

I hope you're not being sarcastic, if you indeed aren't just let me know what portions you're having trouble with.

 

[Scyther]

Trolling must take a lot of time out of your day. In the end the earth isnt flat and you waste time trolling about it. Hence my mental illness statement. Get help please.

So you don't ok thanks. Do you want to know about flat Earth?