A question to the Christians

[dontsnitch]

it's great proof that it's man-made, not supernatural. someone didn't like the way business was being handled so they tweaked the rules and started their own religion. repeat the steps and that's how you get so many different religions with similar stories.

Okay, they may be man made, but that still counts as proof that they are different Gods, even if fabricated fictional ones.

 

[Kiddo716]

Okay, they may be man made, but that still counts as proof that they are different Gods, even if fabricated fictional ones.

it may have morphed into that, but it started off as

"well I think god says this"

"no he says this"

"well fuck you I'll do it my way"

 

[dontsnitch]

it may have morphed into that, but it started off as

"well I think god says this"

"no he says this"

"well fuck you I'll do it my way"

Sure, we know that at least one of the 3 main religions are incorrect, and perhaps there is truth to your analysis of how they branched. My criticism stands, that it is not the same God that is being worshipped, irregardless of the existence (or nonexistence) of God.

 

[ucunc156]

It's not the same answer, it's a totally different answer, that's the point. This perspective is somewhat self-refuting, because Christianity teaches that Christ IS God. So how can Islam worships the same God if they reject Christ as the Messiah?

I can accept that they share roots, and there may have been a time where this argument would have made sense, but it no longer does.

Well then you get into teachings of religions rather than religions of itself. The idea of Christ is God, imo, isn't meant literally you accept Christ as your savior or you go to hell. Its more so that Christ is the embodiment of God, who gave everything for the salvation of mankind. I don't believe God holds anyone's upbringing against them and the way in which they choose to practice when it comes to determining salvation. That is more of a protestant/born again viewpoint. Instead I believe God used himself in the form of Christ to show us how to live, and our best attempt to emulate the morals of Christ (which transcend religion and basically boil down to be a good person) is the key to salvation.

 

[Strychnine]

Well then you get into teachings of religions rather than religions of itself. The idea of Christ is God, imo, isn't meant literally you accept Christ as your savior or you go to hell. Its more so that Christ is the embodiment of God, who gave everything for the salvation of mankind. I don't believe God holds anyone's upbringing against them and the way in which they choose to practice when it comes to determining salvation. That is more of a protestant/born again viewpoint. Instead I believe God used himself in the form of Christ to show us how to live, and our best attempt to emulate the morals of Christ (which transcend religion and basically boil down to be a good person) is the key to salvation.

Very well said.

 

[ucunc156]

Sure, we know that at least one of the 3 main religions are incorrect, and perhaps there is truth to your analysis of how they branched. My criticism stands, that it is not the same God that is being worshipped, irregardless of the existence (or nonexistence) of God.

It's mans perversions of God that have caused these issues. I'm not pointing the finger only at Islam (which imo is the furthest from Gods teachings), but Christianity and Judaism as well. Human interpretation and choice of practice doesn't mean it isn't the same God. tandoori chicken, buffalo chicken wings, and carribean jerk chicken are all different types of chicken, but its still fucking chicken lol.

 

[dontsnitch]

Well then you get into teachings of religions rather than religions of itself. The idea of Christ is God, imo, isn't meant literally you accept Christ as your savior or you go to hell. Its more so that Christ is the embodiment of God, who gave everything for the salvation of mankind. I don't believe God holds anyone's upbringing against them and the way in which they choose to practice when it comes to determining salvation. That is more of a protestant/born again viewpoint. Instead I believe God used himself in the form of Christ to show us how to live, and our best attempt to emulate the morals of Christ (which transcend religion and basically boil down to be a good person) is the key to salvation.

If you don't need to accept Christ, then Christ didn't need to die. If all roads point to salvation, then Christianity is superfluous. I don't know why you think that salvation is not a Christ-centred tenet, it's the basis of the entire NT. Christ himself declared to be God, it is partly why they killed him.

Now take Islam. They not only reject that Christ was God, but they go as far and say that he didn't even die, that he was not crucified. They are worlds apart.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

You never listened to the reasons I've stated in the past that I believe in Jesus. And those incidents did not involve my parents.

Also, In before LI calls me a troll again.

Sorry I offended your sensibilities. Peace be unto you brother.

 

[dontsnitch]

It's mans perversions of God that have caused these issues. I'm not pointing the finger only at Islam (which imo is the furthest from Gods teachings), but Christianity and Judaism as well. Human interpretation and choice of practice doesn't mean it isn't the same God. tandoori chicken, buffalo chicken wings, and carribean jerk chicken are all different types of chicken, but its still fucking chicken lol.

They may all be God, but they are not the same God. Not sure why anyone would even want to argue this.

 

[ucunc156]

Very well said.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

If you don't need to accept Christ, then Christ didn't need to die. If all roads point to salvation, then Christianity is superfluous. I don't know why you think that salvation is not a Christ-centred tenet, it's the basis of the entire NT. Christ himself declared to be God, it is partly why they killed him.

Now take Islam. They not only reject that Christ was God, but they go as far and say that he didn't even die, that he was not crucified. They are worlds apart.

Christ died to conquer death. As a catholic, we even say He descended into hell and on the third day he rose again. He did this to take away the power of death and the hold that satan had on death. upon ascension he opened the gates of heaven for those who had died before him. christ enabled salvation, but imo he isn't necessarily the only path to salvation.

They may all be God, but they are not the same God. Not sure why anyone would even want to argue this.

because I refuse to believe that God punishes those born into a certain area of the world that dictates their religious choice. Especially in previous decades where information wasn't widely available like it is now.

 

[dontsnitch]

Christ died to conquer death. As a catholic, we even say He descended into hell and on the third day he rose again. He did this to take away the power of death and the hold that satan had on death. upon ascension he opened the gates of heaven for those who had died before him. christ enabled salvation, but imo he isn't necessarily the only path to salvation.

because I refuse to believe that God punishes those born into a certain area of the world that dictates their religious choice. Especially in previous decades where information wasn't widely available like it is now.

You can certainly hold this belief, but it is entirely unbiblical. If you want to take this stance, you can, but won't be able to stand behind the bible while you do so.

 

[spamking]

Evidently they stopped it. I don't know when though.

Hmm . . . I'll admit to never knowing it was started. :icon_chee

 

[ucunc156]

You can certainly hold this belief, but it is entirely unbiblical. If you want to take this stance, you can, but won't be able to stand behind the bible while you do so.

which part are you saying isn't in the bible exactly?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm

there is scripture that claims that Christ is the only way man can be saved, and there is scripture that says man is saved through deed. its conflicting, like many things in the bible, and we make what we want of it.

 

[dontsnitch]

which part are you saying isn't in the bible exactly?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a5p1.htm

there is scripture that claims that Christ is the only way man can be saved, and there is scripture that says man is saved through deed. its conflicting, like many things in the bible, and we make what we want of it.

By all means, believe what you like, but I think it would benefit you if you look at the bible, instead of the catholic catechism.

The verses in question are the ones seen in Romand and in James. They are not really that complicated when you study them. What these verses are not saying, is that salvation is apart from Christ.

 

[ucunc156]

disagree. Jesus even says: Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. As in "you reap what you sow".

From the another site: Paul makes the same point in Titus 1:16, in a warning about false teachers. He says, “They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.” He goes on to show the relationship between saving grace and good deeds. He explains (Titus 2:11-12) that God’s grace instructs us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires. Then he adds (2:14) that Christ “gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.”

As I said, the Bible is up for interpretation, and it is my belief that living a Christlike life is far more important than accepting Christ as your savior.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

I really don't care who marries who, as long as no children are involved.

It's not my job to judge the world, and condemn them for everything I think they are doing wrong, but rather love people. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" How could I be judging and condemning non believers when I myself am not without sin.

Christians seem to think they are judge and jury for non believers, that is not true. It's not biblical. And it's not the loving forgiveness in which Jesus demonstrated. Christians end up looking more like the pharisees and religious leaders who Jesus warned for their hypocrisy.

Bless.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

As I said, the Bible is up for interpretation, and it is my belief that living a Christlike life is far more important than accepting Christ as your savior.

Then you will be judged by your works, according to the law.

If you can live a Christ-like life, then why did Jesus have to die for you?
How Christ-like is Christ-like enough?

You are misinformed my friend.

 

[dontsnitch]

disagree. Jesus even says: Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. As in "you reap what you sow".

From the another site: Paul makes the same point in Titus 1:16, in a warning about false teachers. He says,

 

[ucunc156]

Then you will be judged by your works, according to the law.

If you can live a Christ-like life, then why did Jesus have to die for you?
How Christ-like is Christ-like enough?

You are misinformed my friend.

see post 150, it describes why I believed Christ had to die for us and what the catholic church teaches. It has biblical backing (albeit not concrete obviously, thats what this side conversation is about- deeds or religious belief that gain you salvation)

I can quote dozens of verses arguing that salvation is a gift of God through faith in Christ. Just because good deeds is proof of our salvation, doesn't mean that good deeds are what salvation is based on.

If salvation is gained by good deeds, the whole thing falls apart. Christ no longer has to die, we just do what we can. God requires perfection, that's why Christ has to forgive us, and to gain this atonement, we must believe in Christ. For whoever believes in him shall be saved. If you believe in your heart you will be saved. Salvation is a gift from God based on faith by grace so that no man can boast. If it's based on works I can boast that I have earned salvation. It goes against the entire NT.

I fully agree to verses being on both sides. That's my whole point. The Bible can be interpreted in many different ways. God doesn't require perfection, he provides atonement. If you are perfect, you have nothing to atone for. And no man can boast that he is saved due to good deeds because no man is perfect. Its Christ's love for us that saves us, and we return that love through our deeds and actions.

 

[dontsnitch]

God doesn't require perfection, he provides atonement. If you are perfect, you have nothing to atone for. And no man can boast that he is saved due to good deeds because no man is perfect. Its Christ's love for us that saves us, and we return that love through our deeds and actions.

I agree with all of this.