Opinion A Pact with a Thief, a Deal with the Devil: The Vatican’s Pending Agreement with China

[Son of Jamin]

Under Chinese Communist Party (CCP) control, China has shown itself to be an extraordinarily dictatorial and authoritarian nation. All kinds of freedoms that are taken for granted in the West—freedom of expression, of the media, of religion—are not only denied under CCP rule but routinely and often violently repressed. Human rights activists and lawyers disappear and are tortured, while alternative political parties are crushed. Calls for justice are met with the iron hand of the state. Muslims have been rounded up in the hundreds of thousands and forced into re-education camps in China’s Xinjiang Province. This is a regime that will use any means to maintain its monopoly on power. It is also a regime that knows how to present itself to the West, saying and doing the right things to draw support from leaders abroad. Its veneer of civility is an attempt to cover up the reality of its immorality.

China’s View of Religion

What we currently know of the agreement is that the Vatican will cede selection of bishops in China to the Communist Party. In exchange, the CCP will recognize the pope as the official head of the Catholic Church, and regular relations between the two states will be renewed.


The fact that the Vatican sees these terms as an acceptable basis for reconciliation with a brutal dictatorial regime is a slap in the face to millions of Catholics and other faithful religious people in China who have suffered real persecution under the CCP. In fact, it is an affront to reasonable and freedom-loving people everywhere. As a self-described atheist regime, the CCP simply cannot claim authority over religious affairs, such as the choice of bishops. And its offering recognition of the pope is as paltry a concession as admitting the sky is blue.

Despite such an environment, the Vatican is ceding selection of Catholic bishops to the CCP. Congregants won’t accept this, and even non-Catholics find it extremely hard to understand. It is simply preposterous—as preposterous as the CCP selecting a new Tibetan Panchen Lama—for the CCP to involve itself in the selection of bishops. Clearly, the agreement is a blatantly political move designed only to serve the CCP’s interests. Not only does the action of the CCP selecting Catholic bishops represent a major decline for the Vatican, but it is the equivalent of bowing before evil, of selling God to the devil. Does the Vatican not know that the Communist Party controls everything in China? The Vatican ended relations with China in 1951 after the Communist Party had taken over power because the Party wanted to lead everything, including the spiritual realm. Now, after sixty-seven years, the Vatican is throwing away its values and accepting the leadership of the CCP. This will become yet another shameful episode whose stain the Catholic Church will be unable to cleanse.

Author: Chen Guangcheng is Distinguished Senior Fellow in Human Rights at the Witherspoon Institute, Distinguished Visiting Fellow of the Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies at the Catholic University of America, and Senior Distinguished Advisor at the Lantos Foundation

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/11/47110/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliffs:

* The Vatican succumbs to the Communist Party
* The Vatican allows the Communist Party to select the Catholic bishops in China
* The Vatican once ended their relations with China due to human rights violation but that legacy is now defecated on

This also reminds of a passage in the Holy Bible:

Mark 8:36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?

 

[NoDak]

The CCP <3

#Distinguished

 

[Orgasmo]

Two historically oppressive entities making a deal? Sounds like a match.

 

[ocean size]

Yeah man I don't get what it is with everyone allowing china to push their shit in. None of their people are clamouring for it, it must just be about the fat cats getting fatter.

 

[Hognoxious]

Underground churches are growing in China as Christians are persecuted, but it has nothing to do with Roman Catholicism.

 

[Fronk]

Yeah man I don't get what it is with everyone allowing china to push their shit in. None of their people are clamouring for it, it must just be about the fat cats getting fatter.

Well of course. China is one of the big players that doesn't succumb to external pressure. If you deal with China you do it on their terms, unlike most other nations that willingly open themselves up to being pillaged and undermined by internationalist forces. Look at the way they treat the (western) american entertainment industry for example.

 

[Ruprecht]

Pretty disgraceful.
Not that I'd expect the Catholic church to be a protector of anything other than hollow tradition and papal hierarchy.
Still, it's throwing the underground churches under the "Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association" bus.

 

[Ruprecht]

Underground churches are growing in China as Christians are persecuted, but it has nothing to do with Roman Catholicism.

"Underground churches" usually refers to the Catholic congregations not associated with the CPCA.
The protestant version is the "house church" (and their state controlled protestant church is the "Three-Self Patriotic Movement").

 

[TheGreatA]

The Vatican has been corrupt since the beginning. Making pacts with tyrants in order to extend their own influence, has basically been their game for as long as they've been in existence.

 

[Son of Jamin]

I wonder what iI Papa would think about Trump appointing bishops...

 

[BearGrounds]

It seems obvious to me that they're frauds.

I find the Cathar take on the church quite interesting. They saw it as the Synagogue of Satan and the pope the Prince of Darkness.

 

[Billy no mates]

Quelle su-fucking-prise .

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Catholic church abuses, rapes lies and hides it, no different than China who cares

 

[colby25]

Someone please correct me if im wrong... As i have difficulty finding information that isnt too far right or left concerning the Jesuits...but so far this is what i have seemed to gather:

Pope Francis is a jesuit. Hes the very first jesuit to ever be a pope. Jesuits were banned from countries because of their tactics and in the past are to blame for the murder of several popes. To understand more about tactics like this such as deals with china - a communist party and letting them select the bishops- you have to understand the ultimate goal for the Jesuits.

They were originally created to counter the protestant reformation. Some of their tactics were shady at best.

Ultimate goal from my understanding is to bring all religions under the flock of 1.

Thats why we see pope Francis trying to unite Christians, jews, Muslims, Hindus in his video. While its certainly not biblical the main goal is to have the catholic church sitting on top with variois religions underneath it would serm. Thats why deals with chinas communist party can be done.

This is what a cardinal from the catholic church said in regards to the deal:

"They’re [sending] the flock into the mouths of the wolves. It’s an incredible betrayal,” Cardinal Joseph Zen, the former archbishop of Hong Kong who has led the opposition to the deal, told Reuters.

“The consequences will be tragic and long lasting, not only for the church in China but for the whole church because it damages the credibility,” he added.

The bishop in china then said this:

"If I were a cartoonist I would draw the Holy Father on his knees offering the keys of the kingdom of heaven to President Xi Jinping and saying, 'Please recognize me as the pope.'" said Cardinal Zen. "The Vatican’s deal, struck in the name of unifying the Church in China, means the annihilation of the real Church in China."

All about "unity"... See?

In his letter to the Pope, Cardinal Zen detailed how Communist officials are taking money from the underground priests, harassing their family members, putting some of them in prison and apparently killing some Catholics to put pressure on the community as a whole.

Yet "the Holy See does not support them [the underground church] and regards them as trouble, referring to them causing trouble and not supporting unity," said Cardinal Zen.

Again... All about unity... Even if it is totally unbiblical. Its a political power move. The end times we will have a one world religion a one world gov and a one word currency... And this is another step towards that goal

 

[snakedafunky]

Well, the Marxists and Christian are sitting in the same boat.
They both know their ideology can't survive. And its sort of for the same reason.

The Christians run out of customer due to education and prosperity.
And the Marxists have signed their own death warrant by developing the economy.
Eventually, educated people are going to ask question and demand things those two systems can't survive.

 

[Ruprecht]

Someone please correct me if im wrong... As i have difficulty finding information that isnt too far right or left concerning the Jesuits...but so far this is what i have seemed to gather:

Pope Francis is a jesuit. Hes the very first jesuit to ever be a pope. Jesuits were banned from countries because of their tactics and in the past are to blame for the murder of several popes. To understand more about tactics like this such as deals with china - a communist party and letting them select the bishops- you have to understand the ultimate goal for the Jesuits.

They were originally created to counter the protestant reformation. Some of their tactics were shady at best.

Ultimate goal from my understanding is to bring all religions under the flock of 1.

Thats why we see pope Francis trying to unite Christians, jews, Muslims, Hindus in his video. While its certainly not biblical the main goal is to have the catholic church sitting on top with variois religions underneath it would serm. Thats why deals with chinas communist party can be done.

This is what a cardinal from the catholic church said in regards to the deal:

"They’re [sending] the flock into the mouths of the wolves. It’s an incredible betrayal,” Cardinal Joseph Zen, the former archbishop of Hong Kong who has led the opposition to the deal, told Reuters.

“The consequences will be tragic and long lasting, not only for the church in China but for the whole church because it damages the credibility,” he added.

The bishop in china then said this:

"If I were a cartoonist I would draw the Holy Father on his knees offering the keys of the kingdom of heaven to President Xi Jinping and saying, 'Please recognize me as the pope.'" said Cardinal Zen. "The Vatican’s deal, struck in the name of unifying the Church in China, means the annihilation of the real Church in China."

All about "unity"... See?

In his letter to the Pope, Cardinal Zen detailed how Communist officials are taking money from the underground priests, harassing their family members, putting some of them in prison and apparently killing some Catholics to put pressure on the community as a whole.

Yet "the Holy See does not support them [the underground church] and regards them as trouble, referring to them causing trouble and not supporting unity," said Cardinal Zen.

Again... All about unity... Even if it is totally unbiblical. Its a political power move. The end times we will have a one world religion a one world gov and a one word currency... And this is another step towards that goal

That's the conspiracy theory view of the Jesuits.
In reality they are mostly involved in education.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Under Chinese Communist Party (CCP) control, China has shown itself to be an extraordinarily dictatorial and authoritarian nation. All kinds of freedoms that are taken for granted in the West—freedom of expression, of the media, of religion—are not only denied under CCP rule but routinely and often violently repressed. Human rights activists and lawyers disappear and are tortured, while alternative political parties are crushed. Calls for justice are met with the iron hand of the state. Muslims have been rounded up in the hundreds of thousands and forced into re-education camps in China’s Xinjiang Province. This is a regime that will use any means to maintain its monopoly on power. It is also a regime that knows how to present itself to the West, saying and doing the right things to draw support from leaders abroad. Its veneer of civility is an attempt to cover up the reality of its immorality.

China’s View of Religion

What we currently know of the agreement is that the Vatican will cede selection of bishops in China to the Communist Party. In exchange, the CCP will recognize the pope as the official head of the Catholic Church, and regular relations between the two states will be renewed.


The fact that the Vatican sees these terms as an acceptable basis for reconciliation with a brutal dictatorial regime is a slap in the face to millions of Catholics and other faithful religious people in China who have suffered real persecution under the CCP. In fact, it is an affront to reasonable and freedom-loving people everywhere. As a self-described atheist regime, the CCP simply cannot claim authority over religious affairs, such as the choice of bishops. And its offering recognition of the pope is as paltry a concession as admitting the sky is blue.

Despite such an environment, the Vatican is ceding selection of Catholic bishops to the CCP. Congregants won’t accept this, and even non-Catholics find it extremely hard to understand. It is simply preposterous—as preposterous as the CCP selecting a new Tibetan Panchen Lama—for the CCP to involve itself in the selection of bishops. Clearly, the agreement is a blatantly political move designed only to serve the CCP’s interests. Not only does the action of the CCP selecting Catholic bishops represent a major decline for the Vatican, but it is the equivalent of bowing before evil, of selling God to the devil. Does the Vatican not know that the Communist Party controls everything in China? The Vatican ended relations with China in 1951 after the Communist Party had taken over power because the Party wanted to lead everything, including the spiritual realm. Now, after sixty-seven years, the Vatican is throwing away its values and accepting the leadership of the CCP. This will become yet another shameful episode whose stain the Catholic Church will be unable to cleanse.

Author: Chen Guangcheng is Distinguished Senior Fellow in Human Rights at the Witherspoon Institute, Distinguished Visiting Fellow of the Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies at the Catholic University of America, and Senior Distinguished Advisor at the Lantos Foundation

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/11/47110/

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliffs:

* The Vatican succumbs to the Communist Party
* The Vatican allows the Communist Party to select the Catholic bishops in China
* The Vatican once ended their relations with China due to human rights violation but that legacy is now defecated on

This also reminds of a passage in the Holy Bible:

Mark 8:36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?

When State Atheism becomes a State Religion!

Or shall I say Sate Atheism creates a State Religion.


What will happen is Roman Catholicism in China will sort of be a state religion since the sate will have a say on Bishop appointments off-course the implementation of the Church doctrine will be controlled that way and will be interpreted in way that does not contradict the Communist party

Its China now appropriating Catholicism to use it as a political weapon to drive its agenda. Sooner or later those CCP apointed bishops will go to other countries and preach Chinese Catholicism!

This will be a Chinese Century.

Edited for corrections of Typo

 

[babycart]

That's the conspiracy theory view of the Jesuits.
In reality they are mostly involved in education.

Education. Yep, shaping the young minds of the next generation.

Did somebody ever ask: what for?

 

[Son of Jamin]

Well, the Marxists and Christian are sitting in the same boat.
They both know their ideology can't survive. And its sort of for the same reason.

The Christians run out of customer due to education and prosperity.
And the Marxists have signed their own death warrant by developing the economy.
Eventually, educated people are going to ask question and demand things those two systems can't survive.

It's an interesting outlook but given the demographics, religious people are giving birth to many more children than secular people. Sweden used to be very secular and there is a fierce debate going now regarding a school that banned St. Lucia's day because it was against proper gender perspective and costly for parents as well as could be seen as hurtful to non-Christians.

It soon became known that the same school had just celebrated the prophet Muhammad's trip to heaven with candies.

It's just a small tidbit how religion is becoming much more intertwined in the fabric of society, with the difference that it is Islam that calls the shots.

 

[snakedafunky]

It's an interesting outlook but given the demographics, religious people are giving birth to many more children than secular people. Sweden used to be very secular and there is a fierce debate going now regarding a school that banned St. Lucia's day because it was against proper gender perspective and costly for parents as well as could be seen as hurtful to non-Christians.

It soon became known that the same school had just celebrated the prophet Muhammad's trip to heaven with candies.

It's just a small tidbit how religion is becoming much more intertwined in the fabric of society, with the difference that it is Islam that calls the shots.

Islam will go down the same road. Less and less of those children will be religious. Religion simply can't win against education and prosperity.
They know that of course so they try to get influence on children's brains when they are still under development. But that is only going to delay it.
Especially because even religious people are more and more cautious about leaving their children with them.

I don't want to get too philosophical. But the issue is that religion is such a weak ideology at its core.
There is no real dedication to the cause itself because everything is based upon a reward in the afterlife.
You don't pay any price for following or fighting for it. Because ultimately everything will be fine. That attracts a certain kind of mentally weak individual to it.

If you look at the Bolsheviks for example. They had millions of men willing to end it all right there for the Marxists caused in WW2.
No promise of an afterlife or anything they knew this would be the end of it.
That's a different kind of mindset and attracts a different kind of person to it.
Religion doesn't have that. Because people are not in it for the cause but for the reward. (if that makes any sense )