A Judo black belt comes with perks

[Uchi Mata]

Personally, when I teach Judo I don't do a lot of non-technical (i.e. calisthenic type) warmups. My philosophy is that that sort of thing is really most useful for competitors, and that if you want to compete seriously you'll do it on your own. If you're just trying to be in good shape, Judo itself will certainly do that on its own without a bunch of pushups before class. I do run extensive basic drilling which is in essence a warm up, and I don't let folks slack during that portion (nor do I slack when not running class). A typical 90-120 minute class I teach would be:

-Bow in
-5 min warmup (jogging, maybe 25 pushups and 100 crunches)
-10 min Judo specific warmup drills
> rolling breakfalls
> ebi
> kumi kata
-25 min uchikomis of various types
> stationary
> moving
> three person
> adding in throws on 5th rep
-10 min throwing, various drills
> throwing machine
> directional throwing
> combination throws
-15 min ne waza instruction and practice
> base technique
> variation 1
> variation 2
-15 min tachi waza instruction and practice
> base technique
> variation 1
> variation 2
- 10 min ne waza randori
> positional sparring from guard or turtle
> free sparring starting from a non-ippon throw
- 30 min standing randori with minimal ne waza
-bow out

If I spent more time on calisthenics, what exactly should I cut? I see it as a choice between practicing Judo vs. doing calisthenics, and I choose Judo. I have several good sport specific training programs that I advise folks to use if they want to compete at a regional or national level, but it's up to them to do it. I'm a sensei not a personal trainer.

But I don't give a shit if you need a bathroom break. If you leave the room it's either to throw up or take a piss, no one gets water other than on breaks so I don't have to worry about people slacking outside the dojo door. Of course, I teach only adults, it would be different with kids. In any case, I don't worry about people popping in and out once a practice. It happens, I'm not your 2nd grade teacher, I don't need to know the specifics of nature's call.

And if black belts show up late, I assume they have a good reason. Of course, most of them tell me what that reason is, but I know these people well and know they aren't just being lazy. If a BB who was new to the club showed up late consistently then I'd ask him about it, but I wouldn't tell him not to train with us for that reason alone even if he didn't have a good excuse. This is not feudal Japan, Judo is a hobby for the vast majority of us and should be treated as such. As long as you're not disrupting class or hurting people then you're only doing yourself a disservice by showing up late, it doesn't hurt me or undermine my authority in any way.

And it irritates the hell out of me when people are self righteous about things like warmups. As long as you're doing your warmups to the level you feel you need to to attain your goals in the art, then why worry so much about everyone else? As long as they don't slack during partner drills it really has no effect upon you, other than affecting your mental state. And if you're too mentally weak to train hard yourself when other people with different goals are taking it easier, you probably aren't going to be a champion anyway. Find the people who want to train hard and use each other as your measuring sticks if that's what you need to do (it certainly helped me when I was competing seriously), or find a really competitive gym where everyone has your mindset and train there. But please don't put yourself and your approach to training on a pedestal and look down on people with families and demanding jobs who use Judo to stay in shape and relieve stress. It's an equally valid and ultimately more satisfying long term approach to the art.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[risingD]

are judokas slackers?

I mean when I read your first post it seems like once you reach your BB in Judo you don't need to practice anymore because you might think since I got a BB I am perfect enough.

 

[Uchi Mata]

are judokas slackers?

I mean when I read your first post it seems like once you reach your BB in Judo you don't need to practice anymore because you might think since I got a BB I am perfect enough.

Most of the really competitive fighters (international level guys) are at least 3rd dan, though as you might imagine once you start competing at that level no one cares what rank you are. I trained harder after getting my shodan, personally, because I was very competition focused so the rank wasn't as important as winning tournaments. It was nice to get, but really just an honorific and I've never cared about getting additional degrees.

The real question to ask in any serious competitive martial artist isn't "what's your rank" it's "who have you beaten?"

 

[Phreaxer]

This thread proves to me how easy it truly is to earn (using that word loosely) a Judo BB... ugh

 

[Uchi Mata]

This thread proves to me how easy it truly is to earn (using that word loosely) a Judo BB... ugh

I don't know. I had to fight for 5 years to get mine. My last tournament as a brown belt I beat 4 black belts and lost in the finals to a former national champion during golden score, before I was given one. I think it's about as hard as getting a purple in BJJ. I never knew anyone who got a BB in Judo who couldn't hold their own in randori. Does it take as long as a BJJ BB? No, but no one expects a Judo BB to be at that level. But in no way is it easy to get one.

Kids don't get them, for what that's worth, at least not through the USJI as far as I know.

Kinda resent the comment, especially as one of the things I loved about Judo as compared to the Korean arts I started in way back in the day was that they DIDN'T give out black belts to anyone with a big enough checkbook. Everyone higher ranking than me was better than me, which wasn't always the case in the other TMAs I'd done.

Keep in mind too that TS said he thinks he's close to his. Who knows? I thought I was close to mine for over 2 years before getting it. The guys I got mine from took admittance to the yudanshakai VERY seriously.

 

[Phreaxer]

5 years from start to finish? If that's the case, I rest my case. If you're saying from brown to black, then I recind my comment.

 

[Uchi Mata]

5 years from start to finish? If that's the case, I rest my case. If you're saying from brown to black, then I recind my comment.

5 years start to finish. But I don't see how that makes your case, unless you think it's easy to get a purple in BJJ (same time commitment, roughly)

The problem is folks thinking the shodan is the end of the road. That's never been the case, other than for TKD guys who are more marketers than martial artists. Shodan means you understand the basics. Most of your development should occur AFTER you get your first degree black belt. In a sense BJJ is awarding BBs for something different, i.e. mastery (more or less, though certainly there are degrees of skill even among masters) while Judo awards them for competence.

I really like the BJJ purple = Judo BB analogy only because I feel most purple belts don't learn a lot of new techniques after getting to that level, they just hone their games and figure out what works best for them. Judo is similar after BB, you know all the moves it's just a question of perfecting your game. Lower belts are for building, dan ranks are for polishing and perfecting.

I suppose getting a Judo BB is easy compared to a BJJ BB, but much harder than getting BBs in any other martial art. I guess its all relative to your measuring stick.

 

[206warrior]

So being a black belt gives you a right to be a lazy fuck? Awesome.

 

[Naszir]

I don't really understand how anyone could think getting a black belt in judo is easy. A shodan, which is just a base to build from, takes a lot of work. I know it can be sped up by doing well in tournaments. A friend won his weight and open class in a brown belt only tournament recently and got promoted to shodan. But, I have never met a person in judo who slacked, barring injury, that stuck with it. Judo is far too competitive and far too physical for all that. The guys who don't work tend to not stick around because who wants to be someone's throwing dummy? Judo has its own quality control built in. Not every shodan is a world beater, but every black belt I have met has put in the work. Also like another poster has said, most people work even harder after getting to the dan grades because the competition is so much stiffer.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I don't really understand how anyone could think getting a black belt in judo is easy. A shodan, which is just a base to build from, takes a lot of work. I know it can be sped up by doing well in tournaments. A friend won his weight and open class in a brown belt only tournament recently and got promoted to shodan. But, I have never met a person in judo who slacked, barring injury, that stuck with it. Judo is far too competitive and far too physical for all that. The guys who don't work tend to not stick around because who wants to be someone's throwing dummy? Judo has its own quality control built in. Not every shodan is a world beater, but every black belt I have met has put in the work. Also like another poster has said, most people work even harder after getting to the dan grades because the competition is so much stiffer.

Very true. Almost everyone competes a little before getting their BBs, but not everyone keeps competing. Those that do are the ones who end up really badass.

 

[ArTofF16hT1ng]

This thread proves to me how easy it truly is to earn (using that word loosely) a Judo BB... ugh

Your powers of deduction are filled with non-sequiturs, as nothing I said in the first post has anything to do with obtaining an actual black belt. Rather, there's an intricate point system in the States and all kinds of hurdles one has to go through in order to obtain a black belt. Thus, wanting to forgo some warm-ups has nothing to do with one's level of skill.

One of my Senseis skips nearly all the warm-ups and only does randori, he's also the best Judoka in the class.

 

[tk99]

Your powers of deduction are filled with non-sequiturs, as nothing I said in the first post has anything to do with obtaining an actual black belt. Rather, there's an intricate point system in the States and all kinds of hurdles one has to go through in order to obtain a black belt. Thus, wanting to forgo some warm-ups has nothing to do with one's level of skill.

One of my Senseis skips nearly all the warm-ups and only does randori, he's also the best Judoka in the class.

Your powers of chick repellent are strong. Very strong.

 

[Doughbelly]

This sort of thing is common in small recreational/community clubs with few black belts. I've seen long running, community oriented clubs that are like much like TS describes. Usually, they're friendly, warm and welcoming dojos that haven't had a home grown black belt win a medal in years (except for that one kid a couple years ago who's might be working out at the big competition oriented place across town), but so what? These dojos have their place.

As for the guy who starts taking it easy after he gets his black belt? Most Americans don't get college degrees, either.

 

[UrbanSavage**]

Your powers of chick repellent are strong. Very strong.

:icon_lol:

Got an actual LOL out of me. I had a very similar line of thinking as I was reading his post.

 

[knoxpk]

I can't speak for every single person. But at a certain point, you shouldn't have to have your hand held, and should know how to warmup, and make the time to get to class 15min early to do it.

Would be way off topic, but would be interesting to get tour guys' political philosophies... because something is good and should be done, do well-informed/trained adults need to be compelled to do it? Or can they decide to put as much into their training as they want to get out? If we only have 90 min for class, should we cater to those who won't get there early, and use a chunk of it to get them warmed up, or should we cater those who take the activity seriously enough to show up warmed and ready to go when class starts?

My thought is if you have a class that starts at X then it starts at X not quarter till X. Some people have kids, jobs and school in addition to martial arts, every 15 minutes is precious to them. If you would like them in a bit early as to warm up then say class times have changed to quarter till X. Also consider this is a business, they are not employees but customers, not everyone is trying to be Mike Swain or Fabio Gurgel.

This thread proves to me how easy it truly is to earn (using that word loosely) a Judo BB... ugh

This thread proves to me how easy it truly is to post and be a troll.

 

[Phreaxer]

5 years start to finish. But I don't see how that makes your case, unless you think it's easy to get a purple in BJJ (same time commitment, roughly)

Yeah, you nailed it. 5 years for a BB? And then to compare it to a level 3 belt in BJJ? (White, Blue, Purple) To think that is a fair comparison makes me laugh. I don't get the correlation between "the top belt color" (saying both BJJ and Judo have top belts at black) when you don't compare the top BJJ belt to it.

The problem is folks thinking the shodan is the end of the road. That's never been the case, other than for TKD guys who are more marketers than martial artists. Shodan means you understand the basics. Most of your development should occur AFTER you get your first degree black belt. In a sense BJJ is awarding BBs for something different, i.e. mastery (more or less, though certainly there are degrees of skill even among masters) while Judo awards them for competence.

TKD is a whole different beast. There is a place near me that you can get a TKD BB in 1 year (through their expidited plan or two the normal way). So, that's just a joke. Judo considers BBs to be the basics? Sure makes for an intimidating title to those who don't know anything about it but kind of a mediocre milestone for those of us who do know about it... To me a blue and purple BJJ is someone who knows the basics and is developing the more advanced skillset.

I really like the BJJ purple = Judo BB analogy only because I feel most purple belts don't learn a lot of new techniques after getting to that level, they just hone their games and figure out what works best for them. Judo is similar after BB, you know all the moves it's just a question of perfecting your game. Lower belts are for building, dan ranks are for polishing and perfecting.

I think that's a statement that needs to be considered per school. My school has very tough requirements for advancing belts and the brown belt's requirements are not just perfected purples. They are intense requirements. You have to prove you're worthy of any belt, not just be around long enough.

I suppose getting a Judo BB is easy compared to a BJJ BB, but much harder than getting BBs in any other martial art. I guess its all relative to your measuring stick.

I think I addressed this earlier in my post.

Now, let me say, I commend anyone willing to put 5 years into their form of MA, I just think some of them are handed belts far too quickly and easily.

 

[Phreaxer]

Your powers of chick repellent are strong. Very strong.

:icon_lol:

Got an actual LOL out of me. I had a very similar line of thinking as I was reading his post.

Same here. I was going to make a reference to a little green character from a nerd-based movie.... (no need to flame me for bashing the beloved movie series, we don't all have to be fans)

 

[lechien]

when do you stop doing exam/grading in Judo?

 

[knoxpk]

Yeah, you nailed it. 5 years for a BB? And then to compare it to a level 3 belt in BJJ? (White, Blue, Purple) To think that is a fair comparison makes me laugh. I don't get the correlation between "the top belt color" (saying both BJJ and Judo have top belts at black) when you don't compare the top BJJ belt to it.

1st off this guy got his BB in 5 years, does not mean all do so i dont get your point. There have been BJJ guys who got the BB very quickly.

Also compare what the BB means in those sports. I BJJ it pretty much means you are an expert. In Judo all it means is that you have grasped all the basics.

TKD is a whole different beast. There is a place near me that you can get a TKD BB in 1 year (through their expidited plan or two the normal way). So, that's just a joke. Judo considers BBs to be the basics? Sure makes for an intimidating title to those who don't know anything about it but kind of a mediocre milestone for those of us who do know about it... To me a blue and purple BJJ is someone who knows the basics and is developing the more advanced skillset.

Again, does not mean they cannot teach or train or compete but it simply a standard grade saying this guy is proficient in the throws and groundwork that he is supposed to be. Again i am not sure what your point is here. At the least it seems the federations have a pretty standarized test, so a Judo BB is more consistent than any BJJ belt for example, where on guy s a purple forever and another guy with the sames skills is already a BB.

Another thing to consider is the amount of knowledge a Judo BB SHOULD have..all the throws and newaza and probably some kata, you cant hold guys back forever that understand the moves but maybe arent competition monsters.

I am not even what you would call a Judo guy, but maybe you should take up judo and see if you get your BB in 5 years.

BTW read this thread and immediately quit BJJ for the same reason you are bashing Judo: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/bjj-black-belt-4-6-years-711801/

Marcio Feitosa said that 4-6 years is about right if you train consistently. The truly gifted get them in less than 4 years, sometimes 3 years. In Brazil they laugh at you if you ask them about 8 years to a black belt. That's just something that they sold Americans to get more money. No-one in Brazil would "make" people wait 8-10 years for a black belt because there's not much money in BJJ there, but overseas....

 

[Doughbelly]

when do you stop doing exam/grading in Judo?

That's a good question. It depends.

There's a lot of variation in judo culture as you go around the world, with a lot of variation within those cultures. In some very strong competition oriented countries and regions, grading after black belt is a non issue. Others, it's substantially abnormal not to advance in grade as a part of being actively competitive judoka. Even in places where rank isn't really an issue for competitors, there is often a separate path for professional coaches/PE teachers that build in grading requirements into their college degree programs.

In the US, many if not most competitors stop after their first dan. I've regarding this in the past, but competitive judoka here in the US really do themselves no favors when they check out of the grading process. I would encourage everyone who is involved and plans to stay involved to obtain at least their 4th dans. You might like to think of yourself as the hierarchy-be-damned, my judo is visible for everyone to see on the mat rebel type now, but when you have students who are getting screwed by the system, you're going to wish you had the right paper credentials to do them right.