93 guard as go to?

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OldTimey

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ive been trying to make the z/93 guard work for about 6 months now. I have some success, but I'm seriously considering switching to a pure butterfly x guard type game.
It seems to work better as a guard recovery position than a submissions or sweeping position.

If anyone uses half guard and z/93 I'd love to hear your success stories. What's your game plan from that position?
 
I play 93 guard any time the guy is on both knees. (RDLR if standing or in combat base.)

If he is coming in low and driving forward, depending on whether I can keep his head from crossing my centerline, I'll attack either with 1) a snap-down to front headlock from the knee shield arm drag, switching to monoplata if he prevents my leg from going over his arm, or 2) a far side armbar
 
Its my go to against fat guys when I pull guard. The las thing I want is some man beast on top of me with full weight blowing through my half guard like a greased pig.
 
How well does the Z Guard work in an MMA context?
 
It's my go-to open guard. There are tons of sweep options from there, and a few submissions. You just have to learn how to manage the distance properly (though I guess that's true for every guard).
 
OldTimey said:
ive been trying to make the z/93 guard work for about 6 months now. I have some success, but I'm seriously considering switching to a pure butterfly x guard type game.
It seems to work better as a guard recovery position than a submissions or sweeping position.

If anyone uses half guard and z/93 I'd love to hear your success stories. What's your game plan from that position?
Click to expand...

It's not really a sweeping or sub position on its own IMO. Getting good at playing Z is getting good at knowing when and how to transition to other guards. Generally where I see people having the most success is when they use it defensively to avoid the pass while working to set up grips to transition either to a single (often with the lapel feed ala Faria) or deep half. Use the knee shield to avoid pressure and keep off the cross face, meanwhile look to either sit up to get an underhook and transition to a leg attack or, if the passer isn't staying low, transition into deep half. The biggest issue I have with Z guard, and it's not a huge one, is that if the top guy is cagey it can be much harder to create offense than in something like DLR. The passer always has the option of resetting to his knees to kill your offense.
 
Can someone explain to me what Z and 93 are? Are they just knee shield?
 
SteelHammer said:
Can someone explain to me what Z and 93 are? Are they just knee shield?
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Yes. Half guard with the knee shield. And they're the same thing, 93 is what Robson Moura calls it, most people now I think use the term Z guard which I first heard from Andre Galvao (he also had a position he called Y guard, though that never caught on).
 
Uchi Mata said:
Yes. Half guard with the knee shield. And they're the same thing, 93 is what Robson Moura calls it, most people now I think use the term Z guard which I first heard from Andre Galvao (he also had a position he called Y guard, though that never caught on).
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks!
 
Shemhazai said:
I play 93 guard any time the guy is on both knees. (RDLR if standing or in combat base.)

If he is coming in low and driving forward, depending on whether I can keep his head from crossing my centerline, I'll attack either with 1) a snap-down to front headlock from the knee shield arm drag, switching to monoplata if he prevents my leg from going over his arm, or 2) a far side armbar
Click to expand...
 
Uchi Mata said:
It's not really a sweeping or sub position on its own IMO. Getting good at playing Z is getting good at knowing when and how to transition to other guards. Generally where I see people having the most success is when they use it defensively to avoid the pass while working to set up grips to transition either to a single (often with the lapel feed ala Faria) or deep half. Use the knee shield to avoid pressure and keep off the cross face, meanwhile look to either sit up to get an underhook and transition to a leg attack or, if the passer isn't staying low, transition into deep half. The biggest issue I have with Z guard, and it's not a huge one, is that if the top guy is cagey it can be much harder to create offense than in something like DLR. The passer always has the option of resetting to his knees to kill your offense.
Click to expand...

The way I think of it, 93/RDLR (or whatever knee shield/"shell" structure) is my guard, while the other positions are my attacks. I guess you could call them tornado guard, butterfly guard, X-guard and so on, but I don't use an opening to simply set up another guard, I use it to set up the tornado sweep, the butterfly sweep, the footlock or leg drag from X-guard etc.

Just one way of looking at it, but it has helped me become more offensive/aggressive.

sha said:
What's the Jedi Mind Trick?
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From a low underhook half guard (Leite style), you either bait or off-balance the guy into a back-step situation, ducking out to a leg drag or back take. Paul Schreiner does it best, using a "hip shovel" movement to cut underneath the guy's center of gravity and elevating him onto his knee for an instant leg drag sweep. The way he does it also protects the top leg from the kneebar/heel hook dangers that can otherwise loom when playing underhook half. It can be done from shin on shin as well, though I haven't gotten that down yet.
 
Keenan Cornelius recently articulated something I like about the knee shield, which is that it's a way to get your opponent to engage with you, especially no-gi. Butterfly and closed guards are great, but they don't work as well if your opponent can simply stand and/or float through your guard. Even x-guard and DLR variations can be a tricky proposition because eventually opponents learn that they can simply back out and stifle your attempts to engage. z-guard (and it seems eddie bravo has the same strategy with his half guard) will force your opponents to engage with you sitting. against higher belts, i will even go so far as to pull a half-hearted RDLR, expecting my opponent to essentially put himself into z-guard by smashing my grips.
 
It's one of my best positions. I usually only use it in competition nowadays, because its part of my A-game.

I hit sweeps, leg locks, and even have a pretty good triangle from there.

It's also a really good position to transition to an open guard.
 
Knock Out Ned said:
It's one of my best positions. I usually only use it in competition nowadays, because its part of my A-game.

I hit sweeps, leg locks, and even have a pretty good triangle from there.

It's also a really good position to transition to an open guard.
Click to expand...

Okay I'm inspired to not give up on it. More practice it is. I have success with people my size, but i find that bigger guys just mule kick out of it. How long do you stay in z before you transition?
 
OldTimey said:
Okay I'm inspired to not give up on it. More practice it is. I have success with people my size, but i find that bigger guys just mule kick out of it. How long do you stay in z before you transition?
Click to expand...

I developed my knee shield when I was a blue belt. I've spent a lot of time on it. Just keep practicing.

Holt and I aren't big guys. I'm around 140. Like he mentioned, it's a very effective guard to used against big dudes and keeps their weight off of you and allows you to work.

If I can't get anything going with my knee shield then I will transition. It's always on a case by case basis. It depends on what the guy is giving me, what I'm trying to work, or even how tired I am.

What do you mean by "mule kick"?
 
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