5/3/1: Which 2 day split?

KnightTemplar

KnightTemplar

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I'm moving to a 2 day split on 5/3/1 to give myself more time to recover from BJJ and Thai Boxing. There are two main splits that Wendler gives in the 5/3/1 ebook:

Monday: Squat and Bench 5/3/1 + assistance exercises.

Thursday: Deadlift and Military Press 5/3/1 + assistance exercises.

The second option is one big lift per session, so the first mini-cycle takes two full weeks:

Week one, Deadlift and Military Press + assistance exercises.

Week two, Squat and Bench = assistance exercises.

Any views on which is better?
 
Neither one is "better" really it's more a matter of which one is better for you. The biggest difference is that the first option takes more to recover from since you are doing more work in each session. Try the first option and if you feel like you can't handle it switch to the second option and/or make sure your recovery (sleep, diet) is up to par.

Edit: Another option would be to stick with the first option but dial back the assistance. Currently (Due to time constraints) my 5/3/1 split basically looks like the 2 day split from the FAQ:

Mon: Deads 5/3/1, Press 5/3/1, Unweighted chins
Thurs: Squats 5/3/1, Bench 5/3/1, Weighted chins
 
KnightTemplar said:
I'm moving to a 2 day split on 5/3/1 to give myself more time to recover from BJJ and Thai Boxing. There are two main splits that Wendler gives in the 5/3/1 ebook:

Monday: Squat and Bench 5/3/1 + assistance exercises.

Thursday: Deadlift and Military Press 5/3/1 + assistance exercises.

The second option is one big lift per session, so the first mini-cycle takes two full weeks:

Week one, Deadlift and Military Press + assistance exercises.

Week two, Squat and Bench = assistance exercises.

Any views on which is better?
Click to expand...

If recovery is a main focus the 2 week cycle makes more sense (one big lift per session). You'll have more difficulty recovering doing two main lifts plus assistance if you're already having trouble recovering from BJJ and MT.

What's your current lift schedule look like?
 
Really comes down to your specific goals, but if you do Option 2 it will be difficult to make progress. Squatting every other week isn't really ever a good idea, is it?
 
DrBdan said:
Neither one is "better" really it's more a matter of which one is better for you. The biggest difference is that the first option takes more to recover from since you are doing more work in each session. Try the first option and if you feel like you can't handle it switch to the second option and/or make sure your recovery (sleep, diet) is up to par.
Click to expand...

Do you think the second option will mean slower progress since one is only hitting each exercise every second week? Or would the extra recovery actually help speed up gains?

I know that 5/3/1 is a "slow burn" program but I figure that has to be balanced against sufficient volume for growth.
 
KnightTemplar said:
Do you think the second option will mean slower progress since one is only hitting each exercise every second week? Or would the extra recovery actually help speed up gains?

I know that 5/3/1 is a "slow burn" program but I figure that has to be balanced against sufficient volume for growth.
Click to expand...

This is probably a double-edged sword. One hand the 2 week cycle gives you more time to recover and participate in other things (BJJ and MT) but as scoopj alluded to doing the main lifts once every 2 weeks you will probably have slower progress. Maybe not, just how your body reacts to the program. You may make more gains on the 2 week split but it's probably unlikely.
 
KnuckleSangwich said:
If recovery is a main focus the 2 week cycle makes more sense (one big lift per session). You'll have more difficulty recovering doing two main lifts plus assistance if you're already having trouble recovering from BJJ and MT.

What's your current lift schedule look like?
Click to expand...

Wednesday: Deadlift and Military 5/3/1

Friday: Squat 5/3/1

Sunday: Bench 5/3/1

A maximum of two Assistance Exercises for every Big Lift.
 
The second option would definitely mean slower progress because each 3 week wave would take 6 weeks. I also agree with scoopj, I can't imagine squatting heavy once every 2 weeks. I'm actually a little leery of the second option because I wonder if, for a beginner, the training frequency is actually too low. Basically "C" in this graph:

270afig3.png


This is something I've been thinking about lately. When doing SS you are taking advantage of a noob's ability to recover fast enough to make progress every session. As you become less of a beginner it takes longer to recover so you switch to something like the Texas Method or Bill Starr 5x5 that makes progress every week. Further down the round you have 5/3/1 with a monthly progression.

So based on that, if you were a beginner or advanced novice/early intermediate lifter it has occurred to me that reducing the lifting frequency to a 6 week progression (second option), hitting each lift once every 2 weeks might actually be too low to elicit a significant response. Thoughts?
 
DrBdan said:
The second option would definitely mean slower progress because each 3 week wave would take 6 weeks. I also agree with scoopj, I can't imagine squatting heavy once every 2 weeks. I'm actually a little leery of the second option because I wonder if, for a beginner, the training frequency is actually too low. Basically "C" in this graph:

270afig3.png


This is something I've been thinking about lately. When doing SS you are taking advantage of a noob's ability to recover fast enough to make progress every session. As you become less of a beginner it takes longer to recover so you switch to something like the Texas Method or Bill Starr 5x5 that makes progress every week. Further down the round you have 5/3/1 with a monthly progression.

So based on that, if you were a beginner or advanced novice/early intermediate lifter it has occurred to me that reducing the lifting frequency to a 6 week progression (second option), hitting each lift once every 2 weeks might actually be too low to elicit a significant response. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was what was worrying me; I don't think I'm advanced enough to benefit from something like the 6 week progression. The two lifts per session, two sessions a week is looking like the better option for me.

I can understand how an elite lifter like Wendler himself can benefit from the 6 week progression, but I'm nowhere near his level.
 
KnightTemplar said:
Yeah, that was what was worrying me; I don't think I'm advanced enough to benefit from something like the 6 week progression. The two lifts per session, two sessions a week is looking like the better option for me.

I can understand how an elite lifter like Wendler himself can benefit from the 6 week progression, but I'm nowhere near his level.
Click to expand...

I would definitely agree with Bdan's assessment. Training frequency and consistency for noobs is key. That is a really cool graph btw. Make sure your sleep and diet are up to par if you decide to go with 2 sessions a week if recovery has been an issue in the past.
 
KnightTemplar said:
BJJ and Thai on Tuesday, one hour each.

BJJ/Thai and Kali on the Thursday. Again, one hour each session.
Click to expand...

With the split your using now I would set it up like this but if you're moving to the two sessions per week you probably have the right idea.

Mon: DL MP
Tues: BJJ MT
Wed: Rest
Thurs: BJJ MT/Kali
Fri: Squat
Sat: Bench
Sun Rest
 
KnuckleSangwich said:
With the split your using now I would set it up like this but if you're moving to the two sessions per week you probably have the right idea.

Mon: DL MP
Tues: BJJ MT
Wed: Rest
Thurs: BJJ MT/Kali
Fri: Squat
Sat: Bench
Sun Rest
Click to expand...

A nice idea, unfortunately, my gym closes early on a Saturday. No way I could make it from my work to the gym in time to work out.
 
KnuckleSangwich said:
This is the only answer in this scenario...

quit.jpg


Kidding obviously.
Click to expand...

I Lol'd :icon_lol:

The really annoying thing is, it's a very good Gym in most other respects. But it closes at 5:30PM on Saturday and Sunday.

Another bone of contention is the fact that we have a brand new performance gym, filled with the latest kit...but they only rent it out to professional athletes. The regular gym members are'nt allowed to use it.:mad:
 
KnightTemplar said:
I Lol'd :icon_lol:

The really annoying thing is, it's a very good Gym in most other respects. But it closes at 5:30PM on Saturday and Sunday.

Another bone of contention is the fact that we have a brand new performance gym, filled with the latest kit...but they only rent it out to professional athletes. The regular gym members are'nt allowed to use it.:mad:
Click to expand...

We have the EXACT same thing. I workout two days a week at the commercial gym and two days at another well equipped gym with my lifting team. My commercial gym rents out this old cardio studio to a guy who runs a performance consulting service. The dude has a mono, GHR, RH, ropes, tires, prowler, chains, bands, the list goes on and on....I can't touch any of it.
 
KnuckleSangwich said:
We have the EXACT same thing. I workout two days a week at the commercial gym and two days at another well equipped gym with my lifting team. My commercial gym rents out this old cardio studio to a guy who runs a performance consulting service. The dude has a mono, GHR, RH, ropes, tires, prowler, chains, bands, the list goes on and on....I can't touch any of it.
Click to expand...

What's rubs salt in the wound is the fact that more than half our Olympic Gym has been closed off due to problems with the floor. This means there are only two Squat Cages available. If it's busy, you have to que. And yet we have a huge, new gym with SC's, Platforms etc lying empty half the time...

"There's no emoticon for how I'm feeling!"
- Comic Book Guy.
 
My advice would be to do two lifts per session, similar to 5/3/1 for football it starts off as follows:

Press 5/3/1
Squat 55%x5 65%x5 75%x5

Deadlift 5/3/1
Press 55%x5 65%x5 75%x5

Bench Press 5/3/1
Squats 55x5 65x5 75x5

Power Clean 5/3/1
Squat 5/3/1

This is the cycle (less the assistance work) from the book. It's done 3 days per week but could be adapted to 2. There is also no deload.

I could write out the whole book as there are "training blocks" (they are all fairly similar to what I indicated) each block having conditioning + strength portions, but that would be plagiarism.

I realize that you are not a football player...Wendler did write this book though so I thought you might find it useful.

I'll end by saying that this does "end" (think of the above as a warm-up) after a number of weeks build up and basically becomes a two day a week program with Squat and Bench, and Deads and Press falling together both following the 5/3/1 rep scheme. This may be more akin to what you are after.
 
I would do...

Day 1: Deadlift - Overhead Press - Bodyweight Chins
Day 2: Squat - Bench Press - Dumbbell Rows

You wouldnt make progress squatting once every 2 weeks. I think it would be worse for recovery, at least on the side of DOMS too.
 
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