5/3/1 clarification?

[HockeyBjj]

So I'm wanting to switch to 5/3/1 as I start eating more now, or in the near future, to put some size back on but hopefully decently leanly. Anyway, I'm getting a bit confused with what exactly 5/3/1 is. I've been lifting a SS routine I really liked 3 days a week that alternates day 1 (squat, bench, bent over rows) and day 2 (deadlift, military press, pull ups) and then with 2-4 assistance lifts each lifting day that lightly hits to opposite day's muscles. Example, like press day- I'd do dumbell chest flys after the big 3 lifts. So basically each muscle group gets hit 1.5 times a week hard, and 1.5 times light. As for progression, I'd just add 5 pounds to the bar whenever I could successfully do 3x5 with the current weight. The weeks I ended up eating more I was making small gains, and the weeks I was sticking to my deficit I was able to not backslide at all.

All the 5/3/1 calculators are confusing me a bit. They either just give what to do with the 4 big compound lifts and nothing for after that, or they have so many options for assistance work I don't have a clue which one to pick. Can anyone help me by maybe just specifically specifying a 4 week sample perhaps? 4 days a week lifting would be ideal.


Oh, about me. I'm 5'8". 155 lbs looking to move up to 160-165 over the course of 6-9 months so no rush. 22 years old. Calculated maxes (based on 5 rep to failure) are:
Bench- 240
Military Press- 155
Squat- 355
Dead- 380

 

[Flash_Monsta]

inb4

Read FAQ's.

 

[Seiken01]

Buy the book. It answers all your questions.

 

[rikwebb]

So I'm wanting to switch to 5/3/1 as I start eating more now, or in the near future, to put some size back on but hopefully decently leanly. Anyway, I'm getting a bit confused with what exactly 5/3/1 is. I've been lifting a SS routine I really liked 3 days a week that alternates day 1 (squat, bench, bent over rows) and day 2 (deadlift, military press, pull ups) and then with 2-4 assistance lifts each lifting day that lightly hits to opposite day's muscles. Example, like press day- I'd do dumbell chest flys after the big 3 lifts. So basically each muscle group gets hit 1.5 times a week hard, and 1.5 times light. As for progression, I'd just add 5 pounds to the bar whenever I could successfully do 3x5 with the current weight. The weeks I ended up eating more I was making small gains, and the weeks I was sticking to my deficit I was able to not backslide at all.

All the 5/3/1 calculators are confusing me a bit. They either just give what to do with the 4 big compound lifts and nothing for after that, or they have so many options for assistance work I don't have a clue which one to pick. Can anyone help me by maybe just specifically specifying a 4 week sample perhaps? 4 days a week lifting would be ideal.


Oh, about me. I'm 5'8". 155 lbs looking to move up to 160-165 over the course of 6-9 months so no rush. 22 years old. Calculated maxes (based on 5 rep to failure) are:
Bench- 240
Military Press- 155
Squat- 355
Dead- 380

If your looking to put on size at the same time go with the Boring But Big assistance.

For a sample of a cycle:

There are usually 3 or so warm up sets to do also.

 

[HockeyBjj]

inb4

Read FAQ's.

I did. Those are kind of what left me confused. It says do 5/3/1 and I get the main part, but you don't honestly do nothing but that single lift each day, do you?

If your looking to put on size at the same time go with the Boring But Big assistance.

For a sample of a cycle:

There are usually 3 or so warm up sets to do also.

This is what I'm talking about. I can enter my stats and get a chart like this, but what do I do for assistance? Or is it really up to me, and they assume anyone who is running 5/3/1 has learned enough from SS or lifting from football or something to make intelligent decisions each day in the weight room for what else to do?

edit: I saw the boring but big assistance, along with about 15 other options for methods, many of which also changed the format of the main 4 lifts. Do I just arbitrarily choose one of those? The boring but big set seems to me like it doesn't have enough variety maybe?

Maybe I'm a bit wrong in my thinking. I learned lifting from my football coach (I used to be a smallish lineman before I lost 60 lbs. last year) whose big thing was "You want to get stronger, not be a better bench presser" We did a lot of bench, squat, clean, OHP and went heavy on them, but a lot of other stuff as well in the weight room.

 

[Denoginizer]

If you want to do Wendler's program, read his book. There's a lot of secondary information throughout Wendler's various articles online, but the book still had the core information. I think he only had 4 assistance options in the book: BBB, simplest strength, jack shit and something else

 

[jrams]

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/keep-it-simple-stupid-part-2-assistance-work/

 

[MilkManUK]

Really, buy the book. It will answer your questions.

 

[K Ja]

www.strstd.com

 

[toonie]

^^Yes. Use that link. And consider buying the book.

 

[Mike Y History]

If your looking to put on size at the same time go with the Boring But Big assistance.

For a sample of a cycle:

There are usually 3 or so warm up sets to do also.

Keep in mind this is a training max so the 190 on the press would not be the true 1RM, but 90% of it.

 

[Minnja]

http://www.strstd.com/

I did Boring But Big and for the assistance I just used whatever weights felt comfortable. I wasn't killing myself on the assistance lifts, I did a weight that was doable but difficult enough so I felt like I would improve in that lift

 

[HockeyBjj]

www.strstd.com

There it is. Thanks. I've stumbled across that link in the past. I guess I was always a little thrown by which assistance group to go with. I wasn't sure how I felt about only hitting each muscle group once a week is all. It almost seemed better to me to do chest assistance on a non 5/3/1 bench day. Pounding the crap out of a single muscle once a week seemed like a bodybuilder type thing to me I guess. Or is that what you need to do?

Also, for the assistance stuff are the reps supposed to be that high? I'd probably choose the triumvirate or periodization one, and those both have 5x10-20 basically. I thought even for smaller muscles it was better to have heavier weight and therefore less reps. Or is the large amount of volume better?

Again, thanks a bunch and I'm really sorry if I'm sounding like too much of a noob.
(That link does give a nice little confidence boost haha. It put my lifts right on or slightly above the advanced line for each one )

 

[rikwebb]

Its upto you how you do your assistance. I do BBB on the same day as my main lifts, but some people may do it like this:

Bench 5/3/1 - SOHP BBB
Deadlift 5/3/1- Squat BBB
OHSP 5/3/1 - Bench BBB
Squat 5/3/1 - Deadlift BBB.

Pretty sure Golvmopp does Squat BBB nearly every session. Pretty sure theres a few different ways of looking at doing your assistance.

 

[scottm]

I like the Black Iron Beast calculator, it has a few more programming options (assistance templates) ...
http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

 

[HockeyBjj]

I like the Black Iron Beast calculator, it has a few more programming options (assistance templates) ...
http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

That was the one I found the other day when I made this thread asking a few questions, too many options left me confused I think :\

Its up to you how you do your assistance. I do BBB on the same day as my main lifts, but some people may do it like this:

Bench 5/3/1 - SOHP BBB
Deadlift 5/3/1- Squat BBB
OHSP 5/3/1 - Bench BBB
Squat 5/3/1 - Deadlift BBB.

Pretty sure Golvmopp does Squat BBB nearly every session. Pretty sure theres a few different ways of looking at doing your assistance.

I really like this idea. I don't want to get get flamed by the "If you change the program, you're not doing the program!" but I think I may switch up the assistance days like this. Thought briefly about doing an upper assistance group on a leg 5/3/1 day and vice versa, but then that would only give muscles a full rest on Wednesday or the weekend.

So if doing the days like listed above is ok, my only other question is the rep and volume of the work. For the Periodization bible, its 5 sets of 10-20 reps. Is that right? And if so do you stick with the same weight each time? Perhaps one where you can do 20 easy first rep, and by the end you barely get 10? Or adjusting the dumbbells or whatever each set?

 

[Seiken01]

So if doing the days like listed above is ok, my only other question is the rep and volume of the work. For the Periodization bible, its 5 sets of 10-20 reps. Is that right? And if so do you stick with the same weight each time? Perhaps one where you can do 20 easy first rep, and by the end you barely get 10? Or adjusting the dumbbells or whatever each set?

If you buy the book, he will explain why. Otherwise you're just trying to get his program for free (which rips Wendler off) and won't get the reasoning behind it. It's like 20 bucks, don't be a cheapskate.

 

[Denoginizer]

http://store.jimwendler.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=5312EDEBOOK

http://www.amazon.com/Simplest-Effective-Training-Increase-Strength/dp/0557248299

 

[K Ja]

From Wendler himself:

More on Assistance Lifts
The choice of assistance lift pales in importance to the proper execution and loading of the key lifts. Too many younger lifters major in the minors, and they

 

[HockeyBjj]

If you buy the book, he will explain why. Otherwise you're just trying to get his program for free (which rips Wendler off) and won't get the reasoning behind it. It's like 20 bucks, don't be a cheapskate.

Forgot there was an actual book to go with this. Fair callout on your part.

From Wendler himself:



http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/10/the-last-word-on-assistance-lifts-i-wish/

TL/DR: Don't overthink the assistance lifts. They're just there to help build your main lifts.

Thanks for the great quote. I've got a perfect month left with my summer internship before I go back for my last year of college. Should be a good opportunity to do the 1st cycle of 5/3/1 is why I started looking initially. I'll go with hitting the 5/3/1 lifts as the exactly as the program states, and then doing the opposite muscle group for assistance stuff, basically whatever the gym feels like that day. Probably 2-4 exercises each day with 3-5 reps of 7-12.

I had been doing SS like full body workouts 3 days a week, but I can't train Bjj or boxing anymore for a while so I may as well try to get stronger since I've felt awkwardly between weight classes each time I've thought about doing my first mma fight. Burnt my face pretty bad so I can't let that rub on a mat, and pushing myself out of the fire my knuckles on right hand are a bloody, scabby mess still. No problems with lifting or running for cardio tho. Just load up the sunscreen on the face.