5/3/1 assistance for mma

DrBdan said:
I wouldn't do BBB with MMA training, it's a lot to recover from. I would recommend doing one assistance exercise for each main lift plus one upper body pull. e.g.

- Day 1
Squats 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
GMs 3x8-12
DB Bench 3x8-12
Rows (whichever variation you want)

- Day 2
Deadlifts 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Front squats 3x8-12
Dips 3 sets
Chins 3 sets

Rotate the assistance every cycle (if you want to) and choose from the big movements e.g. GMs, RDLs, front squats, DB bench, push press, dips. Don't waste your time and limited recovery ability on isolation stuff like leg extensions and shoulder raises.

edited to put main lifts back to back
Click to expand...

If I replaced GM's by rack pulls that be good enough of a program? I really hate GM's with a passion and also don't know how to perform them for the life of me
 
And also where/how should I incorporate cardio in there, and it's probably been asked more than once, but is there a type of cardio that has a better carry over to combat sports?
 
Road work, mostly. old school basics, and you don't fuck with that!

Rack pulls are a good addition and a great assiatcne for DLs. Its a posterior chain exercise so the carryover to the squat is there too. You could also use weighted hypers, but I am sure no one will argue with rack pulls...
 
NurseKnuckles said:
Road work, mostly. old school basics, and you don't fuck with that!

Rack pulls are a good addition and a great assiatcne for DLs. Its a posterior chain exercise so the carryover to the squat is there too. You could also use weighted hypers, but I am sure no one will argue with rack pulls...
Click to expand...


Cool so Ima get this started right now, doing dishes and hitting the gym, and a cardio session afterwards. Is running/training with my mouth piece going to improve my cardio sessions at all? I've been told it would because it restricts the air that gets in, so it's harder to breathe thus better cardio workout.

Can't find any relevant information. Truth/false?
 
Restricting air will make you tired faster, but will not make for a better cardio workout. But a properly fitting mouthpiece should not restrict air. Just do your MMA training with the mouthpiece in, that should be sufficient to get you used to having it in.
 
ProfessorX said:
Cool so Ima get this started right now, doing dishes and hitting the gym, and a cardio session afterwards. Is running/training with my mouth piece going to improve my cardio sessions at all? I've been told it would because it restricts the air that gets in, so it's harder to breathe thus better cardio workout.

Can't find any relevant information. Truth/false?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't but that's just me...
 
I would do rack pulls as deadlift assistance and alternate them with halting deadlifts so you are working both parts of the deadlift. Here are some videos that explain them:

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/video/platform_the_halting_deadlift

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/video/platform_the_rack_pull

In this case I would move front squats to squat day.

The fact that you hate GMs and don't know how to do them is a good reason to learn how to do them. They are quite popular for a reason.
 
DrBdan said:
I wouldn't do BBB with MMA training, it's a lot to recover from. I would recommend doing one assistance exercise for each main lift plus one upper body pull. e.g.

- Day 1
Squats 5/3/1
Bench 5/3/1
GMs 3x8-12
DB Bench 3x8-12
Rows (whichever variation you want)

- Day 2
Deadlifts 5/3/1
Press 5/3/1
Front squats 3x8-12
Dips 3 sets
Chins 3 sets

Rotate the assistance every cycle (if you want to) and choose from the big movements e.g. GMs, RDLs, front squats, DB bench, push press, dips. Don't waste your time and limited recovery ability on isolation stuff like leg extensions and shoulder raises.

edited to put main lifts back to back
Click to expand...

This is actually pretty good except I would replace GMs with anything (I hate those). Also, where is the core work (except for the GMs)?
 
NurseKnuckles said:
I think you are confusing Kroc row with BarBell row.

Personally I do a Pendlay row as a main lift in my Madcow routine.

BBB is boring as fuck. I think Redaxe was on to something with the pull-ups and dips as far as any carryover reagrding strength for MMA specifically... 5/3/1 2-day split is a good option while training MMA. This defintely limits the amount of assistance work so you have to be efficient in your choices.
Click to expand...

Wendler specifically recommends this in his article on using 5/3/1 for MMA strength training.

Day One: Squat/Bench. 2 - 3 Assistance Exercises.

Day Two: Deadlift/SOHP. 2- 3 Assistance Exercises.
 
Gawd said:
This is actually pretty good except I would replace GMs with anything (I hate those). Also, where is the core work (except for the GMs)?
Click to expand...

Squats, front squats, deadlifts, and GMs all give you a decent core workout. If his MMA gym is anything like my Muay Thai gym he will get lots of core work there anyway.
 
KnightTemplar said:
Wendler specifically recommends this in his article on using 5/3/1 for MMA strength training.

Day One: Squat/Bench. 2 - 3 Assistance Exercises.

Day Two: Deadlift/SOHP. 2- 3 Assistance Exercises.
Click to expand...

Someone should add that article to the FAQ... wait...

Done.
 
Ive used 5/3/1 with the block system in Joel's book to great effect. Basically rotating assistance work by the purpose of the block I'm in (also adjusting how many days a week i'm doing work by this as well).

So for example, in the general endurance block, I would have a week that looks like this(below, keep in mind I have a BB at home, so doing multiple very short sessions a day is extremely easy)

Every day- use Heart rate strap while biking to work, to get within Cardiac output range for 30 minutes in each direction

Tuesday 5/3/1 Deadlift and press, "Tempo method" assistance during first 4 weeks(like BBB, but very short rest times, no rest pause, and slightly lighter weights). Explosive repeat method for second 4 weeks. One lift in morning, one in evening. Explosive repeat uses similar movements with kettelebells, ie swing and jerk respectively

Thursday Squat and Bench, as above. Explosive repeat is squat jumps and plyo push ups

Monday and friday
first 4 weeks HICT(steady state high-resistance cardio like high-incline treadmill, pushing prowler, etc)
Second 4 weeks HRI(basically short hill sprints with full recovery)
 
What's wrong with madcow? Just to confuse things.

I think running with a mouth piece does more for you getting used to them than get your cardio up. I do all my LSS running with nose breathing. Buggered if it gets me fitter than breathing through the mouth, but at least I'm not a mouth breathing knuckle dragger
 
You need to get stronger. As Wendler says, you should stop trying to "major in the minors" with all this assistance work.

If you are progressing properly on the main lifts, looking after your diet and training hard when you attend MMA classes, the aesthetic qualities you are looking for will sort themselves out.
 
Switch said:
What's wrong with madcow? Just to confuse things.

I think running with a mouth piece does more for you getting used to them than get your cardio up. I do all my LSS running with nose breathing. Buggered if it gets me fitter than breathing through the mouth, but at least I'm not a mouth breathing knuckle dragger
Click to expand...

I've been told that it is possible to run Madcow 5x5 along with skill training but since it's a three day program it can be a bit harder to fit in recovery-wise and also beecause it has to be run on a Mon/Wed/Fri split (or any three days with one day rest).
 
DrBdan said:
I've been told that it is possible to run Madcow 5x5 along with skill training but since it's a three day program it can be a bit harder to fit in recovery-wise and also beecause it has to be run on a Mon/Wed/Fri split (or any three days with one day rest).
Click to expand...

One of my major issues with Madcow is just that. I find it challeneging to plan my conditioning work around it because of its intensity. Plus I am on a T3 squat program so the stress is very high especially on my 10's days...

My goal is to get strong right now so it works. However if I ever want to get back into running shape I will have to switch to 5/3/1 which worked great while I was running...
 
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