For those who defend the Rozen/Reem call as a TKO, what do you consider a knockdown?

[Gamer2k4]

I've got to know, because knockdowns happen literally all the time in fights and the fight goes on. Here's the sequence in question:

Yes, Overeem was wobbly getting up. Yes, his lip was badly damaged. Yes, Rosie would have probably finished the fight if he had followed up.

But he didn't.

I'm not in the "if he dies, he dies" camp by any stretch of the imagination, but plenty of fighters have been wobbled by a strike and then clinched or grappled or otherwise gave themselves time to recover. That's a part of fighting, and again, we see it all the time. We saw it on this very card in prior fights.

So, let's put aside all the what-ifs and get down to the basics. Those of you who defend the stoppage, what do you consider a knockdown, and when should the fight be stopped or left to continue?

EDIT: One more question to round things out. You often hear in commentary (especially Rogan's) about a fighter getting "rocked." But the fight goes on. So again, how is that different? For those saying a TKO is legitimate because a fighter is wobbly or not all there, should all fights be stopped as soon as someone is rocked? If not, where do you draw that line?

 

[DarkneT]

It was when he started falling around Dan stopped it..

What’s the problem here

 

[Bogeyman]

There's zero to debate here, the stoppage was textbook.

A knockdown would consist of a fighter going down while still somewhat in control of his body. Overeem was stiff and just collapsed. Cut and dry stoppage there.

 

[khabib time]

I've got to know, because knockdowns happen literally all the time in fights and the fight goes on. Here's the sequence in question:

Yes, Overeem was wobbly getting up. Yes, his lip was badly damaged. Yes, Rosie would have probably finished the fight if he had followed up.

But he didn't.

I'm not in the "if he dies, he dies" camp by any stretch of the imagination, but plenty of fighters have been wobbled by a strike and then clinched or grappled or otherwise gave themselves time to recover. That's a part of fighting, and again, we see it all the time. We saw it on this very card in prior fights.

So, let's put aside all the what-ifs and get down to the basics. Those of you who defend the stoppage, what do you consider a knockdown, and when should the fight be stopped or left to continue?

When a fighter collapses and his legs fall from under him. His eyes roll around and the ref rushes in pushes you away and waves off the fight. Are you new to the sport?

 

[freelanzr]

It was when he started falling around Dan stopped it..

What’s the problem here

Agree... this was clearly only a knockdown, but it matters how much damage Reem had taken.

This clip needs to be longer to show the entire sequence.

In the moment, the Ref rushed in, pushing Roz aside, and determined that Reem was in no condition to continue.

Neither the time remaining nor the opponent's actions mattered at that moment.

 

[winkydinks]

It’s a close call. A premature knockdown stoppage is what happened in the Ladd de Randamie fight. If Dan hadn’t called it, we would’ve seen Overeem eat another punch or two and truly go out cold. I’m kind of indifferent. I will say though that I was at the fight and it looked totally vicious in person. Overeem collapsing was like an earthquake.

 

[ConorFacts]

 

[Hellowhosthat]

When Dan rushes in he was slumped against the side of the cage with his arms by his side.

I had money on Overeem to win and I thought it was a good stoppage.

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

OP replace the word knockdown, with knockout.

 

[Stalingrad9]

"Here's the sequence in question" than proceeds to put a GIF where the important part of Reem stumbling around is cut.

Come on, not asking for journalistic deontology here, but a minimum of intellectual honesty would be appreciated

 

[jimmy dakine]

The bigger question is how the fuck do you lose a fight you're winning with 10 seconds left? Seriously, its the 3rd or 4th time. Derrick Lewis was losing badly and then knocks the guy out w 2 seconds left......where is the fight IQ....Reem has had 70 pro fights...cant believe he was not able to win this fight.

 

[genecop]

Because Rozen walked off, and Reem popped up, the fight should have gone to the judges..

 

[usmctanker242]

100% Flash KO and therefore a good stoppage. While people do get flash KO'd and still come back, Reem was fucking done. He was staggering like crazy, and he was done fighting before the big punch. He had his hands down by his sides and and couldn't even present a basic defense...he was done and got finished. Imagine how bad that lip could have gotten if he had taken a few more stiff shots while he was out cold?

 

[Muay Thai #1]

He wasn't out at all. Rozen could have easily finished with follow up punches but walked away like an idiot. This is very similar to Bisping vs Anderson. Silva probably could have finished Bisping after that amazing flying knee, but even though he was very hurt, Bisping was not out and because Anderson started walking away and celebrating there was no extra pressure for the ref (Herb Dean if I remember correctly) to stop the fight.

 

[Gamer2k4]

"Here's the sequence in question" than proceeds to put a GIF where the important part of Reem stumbling around is cut.

Come on, not asking for journalistic deontology here, but a minimum of intellectual honesty would be appreciated

The sequence in question was the knockdown. The post was about knockdowns. I acknowledge outright that Overeem was wobbly in the first sentence following the gif. And if Rosie had followed up instead of calling off the fight himself, you wouldn't have seen Overeem stumbling anyway. So can it with your "intellectual honesty" garbage, because it's neither accurate nor relevant.

 

[WHITE ANDERSON]

it's a bad stoppage because rozen didn't follow up with a yoel romero style upppercut to send overeem to hell

 

[rac2]

if this was a knockout, so was anderson's versus bisping.

convince me they're different

 

[sonofjay817]

There's zero to debate here, the stoppage was textbook.

A knockdown would consist of a fighter going down while still somewhat in control of his body. Overeem was stiff and just collapsed. Cut and dry stoppage there.

not to mention his face exploded.

 

[sonofjay817]

He wasn't out at all. Rozen could have easily finished with follow up punches but walked away like an idiot. This is very similar to Bisping vs Anderson. Silva probably could have finished Bisping after that amazing flying knee, but even though he was very hurt, Bisping was not out and because Anderson started walking away and celebrating there was no extra pressure for the ref (Herb Dean if I remember correctly) to stop the fight.

Its different because Miragliotta was rushing over to stop it. He was probably yelling stop, stop. Rozenstruik showed mercy and restraint not to hit him again and damage that mouth further.

 

[Stalingrad9]

The sequence in question was the knockdown. The post was about knockdowns. I acknowledge outright after the gif that Overeem was wobbly. And If Rosie had followed up instead of calling off the fight himself, you wouldn't have seen Overeem stumbling anyway. So can it with your "intellectual honesty" garbage, because it's neither accurate nor relevant.

Dan stopped it after seeing Reem stumbling around. So yeah that sequence is relevant.
We can clearly see Dan running in to stop it, he then sees Reem getting up and stops himself. Then Reem gets up, stumbles around so Dan stops it. Good stoppage.

BUT, after rereading your post I didn't understand the meaning of it, so sorry about that. Probably got a little bit annoyed at the bad stoppage argument because I saw a guy write that Reem stood up and shelled up lol

Concerning the Knockdown, I feel that the reaction during the knockdown is really important. To me, a fighter regains his wits as he's going down. Here Reem is out for at least a second, it's almost as if his head banging against the cage wakes him up. He then stands up : if the guy stands up and can keep going fine, but if he stands up and clearly can not defend himself, it should be stopped, that's why I feel the way Reem gets up and walks is relevant. The reaction of the fighter is what changes a KD into a TKO. As we pay attention to how a fighter acts when he gets followed to the ground, we should pay attention to the way he acts when he doesn't get followed and stands up.
To illustrate, I feel Whittaker vs Adesanya should have been stopped in the 1st round if there was 5 seconds more. Even though Rob stands up and walks back to his corner. We can clearly see he's not there.
Unluckily for Overeem, there were those 5 seconds in this fights, and he showed enough proof when he stood up that he could not keep going.