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2nd Degree Battery Charge, Self Defense?

bigben89 said:
They didn't attack me, but they were grabbing me from behind and holding my arms while that animal was still loose. i DID feel for my life, in a sense. i mean, i didnt have any back up on the way, and it was too crowded to get myself away. plus, i dont know about you, but i'm not turning my back to a situation like that. and all of this happened in less than 30 seconds. i didnt really have time to think, and surely didnt have time to judge how little force was required to save my ass.
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Dude, I'm totally with you on this. If I was in charge of the law, you could have stomped his head in after it's over, but I'm admittedly a bit extreme. I am not a fan of violence, but my opinion is when someone behaves violently to me or my family or friends, I dish it out double. Now, the law has the opposite opinion, and it sucks.

I would insist that you only acted aggressively, because you feared for your life or bodily health. Technically, it doesn't matter whether you or him threw the first punch or made the first violent action. You were doing your job by trying to get him to pay his tab and leave. That is a fact. He picked you up by your shirt which is obviously him attempting at minimum to intimidate you, and he possibly could have hurt you if you hadn't reacted.

Also, his friends holding you is good for you. If his friends were against the fight, they would have held their boy back. I'd say that you expected them to hold you and let him hit you. That's kind of what I'm getting from that at least. They had no right holding you while their friend was loose. Keep with the I feared for my life and bodily health, and really emphasize that you stopped hitting him when he fell. You knew then he was no longer a threat.
 
I'm surprised no one has come in here saying "you should have went to college and then gotten a real job you lazy trade school attending bum!"

Oh wait that's the War Room. My bad.
 
Wouldn't him picking you up by your shirt be starting the physical confrontation? After all, there is nothing illegal about politely reminding people of their tab.
 
I don't know about your state, but in mine to prove Second Degree Battery the state has to prove that you intended bodily harm, ie you were out to break his nose.
 
BigBen is actually pretty jacked. And reeeallllyyyy young. No cauli's either. Don't no where to go from here...
 
bigben89 said:
she's a women. judge ramona emanuel. shes seems of a nice temperment.... but if i dont take the plea, and choose trial by jury does anyone know what will happen worst case scenario?
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Tell your PD you want the judge's sentencing history for all assault cases in the past two years. Her clerk can pull that off Lexis. Accept no excuses when she tells you she's too busy. Remind her that this is your life, you understand she's overworked and will forget about you as soon as this case is over but this is something you have to live with forever, thus, you need that sentencing history.

Worst case scenario is getting sentenced at the tippy-top of the guideline range but that's usually reserved for heinous cases with clear-cut, aggravating circumstances. Unless you're really leaving something out, that's probably not going to apply to a garden variety, he-said she-said barfight. .

I don't know what your criminal history but if it's minor and non-violent, you're usually going to be good in this spot but this is why recon on the judges sentencing patterns is relevant in making your decision. Some judges have massive boners for certain offense types that cause them to sentence differently. Some are more understanding.

Anyway, what you're going through right now is why court sucks so fucking bad. It's the not knowing that burns you up but unless you're leaving something out, something really freak occurs or your judge is weird, I can't imagine you getting locked up for a barfight that didn't even result on an on-site arrest or major injury.
 
Find the guys who you got into a fight with, the bartender, and your boss.

Eliminate them all.
 
besides the fact that i realize a mma forum might be a little biased towards fighting, even my friends whom ive spoken to that are liberal at best most of the time feel the same general way most of you do. I think ive got a pretty good shot, no priors by the way, of any kind. i'll hopefully be able to update this with a verdict, trial date set for march 11
 
Your mistake was actually talking with the cops. You learned your lesson the hard way. Even if you are 100% in the right, never ever say a word to the cops. Public defenders are free for a reason, they don't care about you. You're just another number to them. Good luck and hopefully the prosecutor drops the charges but it sounds doubtful from what I've read.
 
Who the fuck talks to the police lol. Hope your MT helps you out in Prison.
 
Kemo said:
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okay, but what your saying dosen't make any sense. I didn't talk to the police, they came and arrested me. did you read anything, or are you just trying to be... nope, your just a douche.
 
bigben89 said:
okay, but what your saying dosen't make any sense. I didn't talk to the police, they came and arrested me. did you read anything, or are you just trying to be... nope, your just a douche.
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hes right
i dont remember if you said as much in your story but did you talk to a detective or the police without your lawyer present
even if it was to tell your side of the story, thats a major no no
if they give you the option to talk to a detective or go to jail, you go to jail. try to make bond and then have all your communication with the authorities done through your lawyer.
 
I admittedly have little legal knowledge, but doesn't the fact that they were intoxicated at the time undermine the credibility of their account of what happened?
 
zapataxiv said:
hes right
i dont remember if you said as much in your story but did you talk to a detective or the police without your lawyer present
even if it was to tell your side of the story, thats a major no no
if they give you the option to talk to a detective or go to jail, you go to jail. try to make bond and then have all your communication with the authorities done through your lawyer.
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This is a billion percent correct.
Never, ever say a single word to the police.

Contrary to what you see on TV, once you're arrested, the police have fulfilled their highest role in the process. They have little (to no) "discretion" to waive your offense and let you go; once you're in handcuffs, the only people who can offer you grace are prosecutors and judges. Anything cops do after the point of arrest is simply to assist the prosecutor to prosecute you.

This is why you say nothing to them, but shocking how few people understand this or who think that they can 'talk their way out of it' subsequent to an arrest. Idiots.

"Look, you can help yourself if you just tell us wh..."

"Sorry. I have nothing to say..."

"Well, you're going to jail for a long time. Say, Bob, what's the sentence for his crime? Five years? You're going to spend the next five years in jail. The only way you have to help yourself is to talk to me, right now..."

"Sorry. I have nothing to say to you... I'd like an attorney, please."
 
ambrosia said:
I admittedly have little legal knowledge, but doesn't the fact that they were intoxicated at the time undermine the credibility of their account of what happened?
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His lawyer will probably point that out. How relevant its determined to be is up to the people doing the perceiving.
 
If you go to court, stop lifting and working out well before hand. Your case will be more believable and sympathetic if you lose some of that muscle
 
The amusing part of this to me is that it was over $5
 
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