NBA ***2024 NBA Thread - Let The Games Begin***

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MusterX said:
I'm not hating on Lebron right now, although sometimes I do. I give him his due and have him solidly at the #2 or #3 All Time. I'm not saying he sucks, I'm saying this longevity argument is not great. I'm far more impressed with his per game dominance.
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I'm impressed with his longevity more because his game has that wow athletic factor, yeah he by no means has the same bounce he did 5 to 10 years ago , but he isn't exactly laboring up and down the court, also he hasn't had some of the Major injuries that alot of other guys have had which I can applaud.
 
MusterX said:
I'm not hating on Lebron right now, although sometimes I do. I give him his due and have him solidly at the #2 or #3 All Time. I'm not saying he sucks, I'm saying this longevity argument is not great. I'm far more impressed with his per game dominance.
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He literally impacts the game more than anyone in NBA history

He's never been on a squad without expectations. He's always been competing for championships. He didn't get a developmental phase. He got a rookie year and then people started wondering when he'd make a finals for fucks sake. He never got a year to just ball out and score without repercussions. He always had to lead grown ass pros older than him to heights their bum careers never got to before.

When he scored like 25 straight points against the Pistons, it didn't occur to you that he could do that at any given time? He did it against the best defense the league had ever seen at that point for crying out loud.
 
MusterX said:
His stats are not better than Jordan's, not traditional stats, not advanced analytics, and not when compared against others that play his position. Jordan has the edge across the board.
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Lol at across the board. Jordan averages more points on lower efficiency than LeBron. That's it. LeBron has the edge in playmaking and Rebounding. I'll take a floor general that can defend all 5 positions over a scorer that can defend 2.
 
THE MARTIAN said:
Lol at across the board. Jordan averages more points on lower efficiency than LeBron. That's it. LeBron has the edge in playmaking and Rebounding. I'll take a floor general that can defend all 5 positions over a scorer that can defend 2.
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You don't want this argument buddy, I'll just let that slide.
 
Croaker said:
He literally impacts the game more than anyone in NBA history

He's never been on a squad without expectations. He's always been competing for championships. He didn't get a developmental phase. He got a rookie year and then people started wondering when he'd make a finals for fucks sake. He never got a year to just ball out and score without repercussions. He always had to lead grown ass pros older than him to heights their bum careers never got to before.

When he scored like 25 straight points against the Pistons, it didn't occur to you that he could do that at any given time? He did it against the best defense the league had ever seen at that point for crying out loud.
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I rank him in the Top 5 All Time bud, how much more respect can I give him? I don't even like him but still rank him Top 5 All Time.
 
MusterX said:
You don't want this argument buddy, I'll just let that slide.
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Humour me. Where was I wrong. You claimed Jordan has him beat statistically " across the board".

Where does Jordan have LeBron beat aside from PPG (where LeBron makes up, plus some averaging a full 2 assists Per game more, leading to more points), and Steals.

Advanced metrics are closer with Jordan leading in BPM and WS/48 and LeBron leading in VORP, PER, WS, and TS%

So tell me again how Jordan has "better stats, both traditional and advanced" lol
 
THE MARTIAN said:
Humour me. Where was I wrong. You claimed Jordan has him beat statistically " across the board".

Where does Jordan have LeBron beat aside from PPG (where LeBron makes up, plus some averaging a full 2 assists Per game more, leading to more points), and Steals.

Advanced metrics are closer with Jordan leading in BPM and WS/48 and LeBron leading in VORP, PER, WS, and TS%

So tell me again how Jordan has "better stats, both traditional and advanced" lol
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Would it make any difference? Its an argument that goes nowhere but I'll give you some data anyway. There are 8 traditional stats, Jordan leads Lebron in 5 of the 8, ppg, steals, blocks, FT%, and fewer turnovers. Lebron leads in rebounds, assists, and FG% but even the FG% thing has to be taken in context, at no point has Lebron been a better jump shooter than Michael Jordan. This shit is positional, Lebron takes way more of his "shots" from 0-3 feet where its not really a jump shot. Jordan was a lethal jump shooter.

Beyond those traditional stats, VORP is a cumulative stat which obviously Lebron has the edge but VORP/Game Jordan is 1st all time in the regular season and 1st in the playoffs. Jordan is also 1st all time in BPM in the regular season and the playoffs, he's also 1st all time in WS per 48 in the regular season and the playoffs, he's also 1st all time in PER in the regular season and the playoffs.

I won't even bring up accomplishments and accolades, Jordan has more, and in less time. And the idea Jordan didn't face stiff competition in the Finals is laughable, Lebron's Finals opponents averaged 60.8 wins, Jordan's Finals opponents averaged 61.2 wins.

Jordan was also a better defender, but does it even matter, you are not going to change your mind about anything. I'm not even saying Lebron is bad, I have him in the Top 5 ALL TIME, he's an incredible player, he's just not Michael Jordan.
 
MusterX said:
Would it make any difference? Its an argument that goes nowhere but I'll give you some data anyway. There are 8 traditional stats, Jordan leads Lebron in 5 of the 8, ppg, steals, blocks, FT%, and fewer turnovers. Lebron leads in rebounds, assists, and FG% but even the FG% thing has to be taken in context, at no point has Lebron been a better jump shooter than Michael Jordan. This shit is positional, Lebron takes way more of his "shots" from 0-3 feet where its not really a jump shot. Jordan was a lethal jump shooter.

Beyond those traditional stats, VORP is a cumulative stat which obviously Lebron has the edge but VORP/Game Jordan is 1st all time in the regular season and 1st in the playoffs. Jordan is also 1st all time in BPM in the regular season and the playoffs, he's also 1st all time in WS per 48 in the regular season and the playoffs, he's also 1st all time in PER in the regular season and the playoffs.

I won't even bring up accomplishments and accolades, Jordan has more, and in less time. And the idea Jordan didn't face stiff competition in the Finals is laughable, Lebron's Finals opponents averaged 60.8 wins, Jordan's Finals opponents averaged 61.2 wins.

Jordan was also a better defender, but does it even matter, you are not going to change your mind about anything. I'm not even saying Lebron is bad, I have him in the Top 5 ALL TIME, he's an incredible player, he's just not Michael Jordan.
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Idk if you know what across the board means lol. Lebron also has a better 3 pt percentage and the blocks are a wash. So if you look at it objectively it’s 4-4-1…based on traditional stats
 
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MM808 said:
Idk if you know what across the board means lol.
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That it, all you got today? Jordan has the edge on LeBald in almost every way that matters. He was better offensively, better defensively, and better at winning.
 
MusterX said:
That it, all you got today? Jordan has the edge on LeBald in almost every way that matters. He was better offensively, better defensively, and better at winning.
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Reread it. I edited it. And what do you mean that’s all I have today? Got your panties in a bunch? I’m just pointing out your inaccuracies like I always do.
 
MM808 said:
Idk if you know what across the board means lol. Lebron also has a better 3 pt percentage and the blocks are a wash. So if you look at it objectively it’s 4-4-1…based on traditional stats
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During Jordan's era they didn't shoot many 3's but lets put it into some context. Jordan shot 33% from 3 and during his era the league average was 33%, he was average at shooting 3's but attempted less than 2 per game. Lebron shoots 34% from 3, but in his era the 3 is much more important and his peers average 35%. Either way, neither of these guys is great shooting the 3. The stat that is really a wash is Jordan shooting 49.7% from the field to Lebron's 50.5%, especially considering Jordan was the better shooter.
 
MusterX said:
During Jordan's era they didn't shoot many 3's but lets put it into some context. Jordan shot 33% from 3 and during his era the league average was 33%, he was average at shooting 3's but attempted less than 2 per game. Lebron shoots 34% from 3, but in his era the 3 is much more important and his peers average 35%. Either way, neither of these guys is great shooting the 3. The stat that is really a wash is Jordan shooting 49.7% from the field to Lebron's 50.5%, especially considering Jordan was the better shooter.
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Still doesn’t change the 4-4-1 stat lol. Again what does across the board mean to you? And no, the real wash is the stat (blocks/game) that they are actually tied in.
 
MM808 said:
Still doesn’t change the 4-4-1 stat lol. Again what does across the board mean to you? And no, the real wash is the stat (blocks/game) that they are actually tied in.
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Your 4-4-1 stat is fucking made up.
 
MusterX said:
Your 4-4-1 stat is fucking made up.
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Please elaborate. I’m just basing it off of the traditional stats you brought up smartass and adding the one you conveniently omitted.

MJ- PPG, steals, TO, ft%

Lebron- FG%, Reb, assists, 3P%

Both tied in blocks/game at .8

So again, please elaborate how I made it up
 
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