Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread v4

[VivaRevolution]

Who is the slam dunk VP that helps Bernie settled the fears of the establishment Dems?

Is it someone like Kamala or Mayor Pete, who are not a concern due to age and will be seen as moderating factors?

I think it would be a mistake to pick a VP also from progressive left.

I don't think Bernie is worried about the establishment vote at all. They will vote against Trump no matter what.

I hope he picks Tulsi. It's voter turnout Bernie needs to go for, and she appeals to Independents.

It also gives him cover to oppose the MIC.

Send Tulsi out there to tell everyone that the next attack by 'Syrian rebels' using chemical weapons is BS.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

In all of berns years in office he’s accomplished zilch. His own programs in Vermont failed. Any time he’s called out his answer is “this is not the time for that” or “this is not what’s important right now”. Meanwhile deflecting all questions back to what he wants to talk about...mainly climate change it seems. He’s a doormat man, can’t you see that? ...and a “ democratic socialist” one at that. He doesn’t need to say he grabs women by the pussy or anything but the way he lets people trample on him isn’t what you’d call leader material

I will list his accomplishments:

Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee chairman, Sanders steered the bill through Congress. The legislation (H.R. 3230) passed the Senate 93-3 after passing the House 265-160 and was signed by President Obama on Aug. 7, 2014. The law included $5 billion for the VA to hire more doctors and other health care professionals. Sanders commitment to veterans has a long history. In 1998, he worked with Rep. Chris Shays to pass a bill to care for illnesses afflicting Gulf War veterans.

Free Credit Reports
The House on November 2, 2003, passed legislation (H.R.2622) authored by Sanders (original bill) to provide all Americans with one free credit report per year. The bill became law (Public Law No: 108-159) on Dec. 4, 2003.

The Fed
A first-ever audit of the Federal Reserve revealed eye-popping details of how $16 trillion in near zero-interest loans went to banks and businesses in the U.S. and abroad in the aftermath of the 2008 financial collapse. The audit (GAO-11-696) was required by a Sanders amendment to the 2010 Wall Street reform bill.

There is more, but I don’t want to bore you too much.

I think it’s also worth considering that he voted against really disastrous policies in spite of the fact that he was under pressure from many angles to vote for them. Voting against NAFTA meant resisting pressure from American agribusiness, CEOs of automotive companies, and nearly the every member of the democratic and republican parties. You can’t be a doormat and take that kind of a stand.

And after NAFTA the U.S. lost 17.7 million manufacturing jobs. Meanwhile in Mexcio, subsidized u.s agricultural products kept Mexican farmers from being able to sell their goods at market competitively. Pretty soon the whole Mexican rural landowning middle class collapsed! They moved into the cities to take those manufacturing jobs at lower wages, and now drugs are grown on that land. Middle class people got fucked by NAFTA.

He took a stand against the Bankers when they deregulated Wall Street, voting against them every time, and he took a stand by voting against the Iraq war. He might come across as weak or frail to some people. But his voting record tells a different story!

Vote for whoever you want brother. But at least give Bernie a fair shake

 

[Jack V Savage]

Fake leftists? WTH is this ? Now we have a purity test? Jeez.

Not a purity test. Talking about people whose political positions as expressed in message boards are more about their identity than policy preferences or philosophy. They're not really ideological at all but describe themselves as leftists.

I predicted in 2016 that they'd turn on Warren. I also noted that their hatred of Clinton wasn't based on reality and that they'd hate whoever the nominee was with the same passion. Had arguments with people who insisted that, for example, Warren or Biden could not be effectively smeared the way that Clinton was. I was right.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I will list his accomplishments:







There is more, but I don’t want to bore you too much.

I think it’s also worth considering that he voted against really disastrous policies in spite of the fact that he was under pressure from many angles to vote for them. Voting against NAFTA meant resisting pressure from American agribusiness, CEOs of automotive companies, and nearly the every member of the democratic and republican parties. You can’t be a doormat and take that kind of a stand.

And after NAFTA the U.S. lost 17.7 million manufacturing jobs. Meanwhile in Mexcio, subsidized u.s agricultural products kept Mexican farmers from being able to sell their goods at market competitively. Pretty soon the whole Mexican rural landowning middle class collapsed! They moved into the cities to take those manufacturing jobs at lower wages, and now drugs are grown on that land. Middle class people got fucked by NAFTA.

He took a stand against the Bankers when they deregulated Wall Street, voting against them every time, and he took a stand by voting against the Iraq war. He might come across as weak or frail to some people. But his voting record tells a different story!

Vote for whoever you want brother. But at least give Bernie a fair shake

I was sure that you have to bench the 275, or in Trump's case weigh the 275, to be tough though.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Booo!

 

[Brazilian HKD]

Anyone can view the exchange and verify that you are lying. And, no, I didn't need to go to your character to indict that laughable argument. I did to return an insult. You needed to call me detached from reality in the first place because you couldn't handle objective truths that were neither disparaging to Clinton nor relevant to you. Which is why, since then, you've repeatedly called me a Berniebot and I haven't once called you a Hillary shill. Because my argument was rational and yours was not.

Where can I see the exchange?

 

[VivaRevolution]

In all fairness I think we need a Trump megathread.

Then we can just move any topic related to Trump to that megathread.

Doesn't that seem fair?

Fuck it. I'm starting it.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Where can I see the exchange?

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/2020-democratic-primary-thread-v4.4055437/page-13#post-157640963

 

[MikeMcMann]

I don't think Bernie is worried about the establishment vote at all. They will vote against Trump no matter what.

I hope he picks Tulsi. It's voter turnout Bernie needs to go for, and she appeals to Independents.

It also gives him cover to oppose the MIC.

Send Tulsi out there to tell everyone that the next attack by 'Syrian rebels' using chemical weapons is BS.

Is Bernie savvy enough to pick someone strategically who will appeal to independents and those who might otherwise not vote for him, or is he more ideological driven and simply won't care.

I like Bernie and would like to see him win but do not know him at a granular level when it comes to strategy.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Fuck outta here with that nonsense. What's the point of having a Mercedes or a college degree if everyone has one.

So having a super reliable car and being able to pursue an occupation about which you are passionate both have no "value" if everyone else can have the same?

In a theoretical world where everyone can have X-grade quality you would opt for less than X-grade?? What would you see yourself gaining by such a strategy?

 

[HereticBD]

Who is the slam dunk VP that helps Bernie settled the fears of the establishment Dems?

Is it someone like Kamala or Mayor Pete, who are not a concern due to age and will be seen as moderating factors?

I think it would be a mistake to pick a VP also from progressive left.

I doubt it will be anyone from the primary field.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Is Bernie savvy enough to pick someone strategically who will appeal to independents and those who might otherwise not vote for him, or is he more ideological driven and simply won't care.

I like Bernie and would like to see him win but do not know him at a granular level when it comes to strategy.

My guess is his first priority is to win, so whoever does that is the top criteria.

Second would be someone who can carry the torch when he is gone.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Nationally? No.

The Emerson poll was for a single state if I remember correctly.

No, it was a national one -- alot of you people were touting it pretty hard
http://emersonpolling.com/2019/04/1...democratic-nomination-mayor-pete-on-the-move/

The thread i was talking about was when you used the Monmouth in aug https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ly-three-way-tie-for-democratic-lead.4006053/ for a 3 way tie, but there newest national poll has biden up +5

 

[AlexDB9]

I will list his accomplishments:








There is more, but I don’t want to bore you too much.

I think it’s also worth considering that he voted against really disastrous policies in spite of the fact that he was under pressure from many angles to vote for them. Voting against NAFTA meant resisting pressure from American agribusiness, CEOs of automotive companies, and nearly the every member of the democratic and republican parties. You can’t be a doormat and take that kind of a stand.

And after NAFTA the U.S. lost 17.7 million manufacturing jobs. Meanwhile in Mexcio, subsidized u.s agricultural products kept Mexican farmers from being able to sell their goods at market competitively. Pretty soon the whole Mexican rural landowning middle class collapsed! They moved into the cities to take those manufacturing jobs at lower wages, and now drugs are grown on that land. Middle class people got fucked by NAFTA.

He took a stand against the Bankers when they deregulated Wall Street, voting against them every time, and he took a stand by voting against the Iraq war. He might come across as weak or frail to some people. But his voting record tells a different story!

Vote for whoever you want brother. But at least give Bernie a fair shake

Yeah...as far as that goes, ol bern is not what you’d call and grand stander, he has no prominent legislative accomplishments to speak of...as in authored a bill and voted it into law. His “biggest accomplishments” were hundreds of legislations passed because they were attached to other bills...introduced by others btw. Basically renaming post offices and handing out money to his preferred causes....this in what 30 years of office? Snap back into reality my friend. This guys is a waste of your vote. But that’s your God given right (if you even vote)

 

[Aegon Spengler]

I was sure that you have to bench the 275, or in Trump's case weigh the 275, to be tough though.

“Set up a gym on your tour bus pussy!!”

Although maybe he should

 

[MikeMcMann]

I doubt it will be anyone from the primary field.

Are there any lead 'buzz' candidates outside the primary rising?

My guess is his first priority is to win, so whoever does that is the top criteria.

Second would be someone who can carry the torch when he is gone.

These seem that they could be odds though.

The 'torch bearer' who might want to ensure the mission continues might not be the one friendly to moderates or those who fear Bernie is too far left.

It seems that person would be to shore up Bernies base, saying look if Bernie dies we have his successor in line. That is a great way to do it if you just are making a base play but I am asking will he reach beyond his base play.

 

[ultramanhyata]

https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/01/24/conflict-vs-mistake/

That's probably a better framework for thinking of the difference than liberal vs. progressive.

I think the following two paragraphs do effectively summarize the central difference between the 21st century American liberal and the 21st century American progressive.

When mistake theorists criticize democracy, it’s because it gives too much power to the average person – who isn’t very smart, and who tends to do things like vote against carbon taxes because they don’t believe in global warming. They fantasize about a technocracy in which informed experts can pursue policy insulated from the vagaries of the electorate.

When conflict theorists criticize democracy, it’s because it doesn’t give enough power to the average person – special interests can buy elections, or convince representatives to betray campaign promises in exchange for cash. They fantasize about a Revolution in which their side rises up, destroys the power of the other side, and wins once and for all.

But the writer attempts to pull a fast one with his depiction of what he labels the "conflict theorist". As the "conflict theorist" does not, entirely unlike the so-called "mistake theorist", "criticize democracy". He/she, in fact, is criticizing the lack of or corruption of democracy within the current governmental system.

And, yes, thinking of liberals as anti-democracy and progressives as pro-democracy sums up the key distinction. Good call, Jack.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Interesting to see Mike only 3 points behind Warren. That’s gotta be a real kick in the guts for ol’ Liz

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

That change anything? Or is the feeding frenzy too intense?

I would like to see the proof of this claim.

and no, it doesn't change anything. Warren could have publically and immediately shut down/denied this BS when it caught traction with something like, "...Bernie Sanders has been a trusted colleague for many years...he has never uttered such words to me. he has been an advocate for woman's rights since the day I've known him..."

instead, she doubled down on it.

 

[ultramanhyata]

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/2020-democratic-primary-thread-v4.4055437/page-13#post-157640963

That's not a link to the exchange. Smart move on your part.