Elections 2020 Democratic Primary Thread v4

[Jack V Savage]

Hey man. I know this is sensetive but I feel I must point something out to you.

Jack is being childish and THIS time its aimed at you and so you are rightly annoyed.

What exactly is "childish" about opposing lies? Do you think it's good when people insist that you hold positions you don't hold, even after you prove that you were right? Trotsky knew exactly what he was doing, too (it wasn't an honest mistake) because we had the same discussions at the time. He tries to hide it by dishonestly denying that his previous account was him, but we all know the truth.

 

[bobgeese]

hi bob once more,



i'm not up on what my learned fellow liberals think about Mrs. Warren's funding apparatus, so i won't comment on their thinking process.

if Mrs. Warren has said she'd cancel the debt via Executive Order, then that's all that needs to be said. what more needs to be said? the type of pen she'd use to sign the order with?

can an EO be challenged in the courts? sure it can, but Warren doesn't need to stipulate that.



i read in the NYT that candidate Joe Biden is the one accusing Warren of not being honest.
yes, well, lol....i guess he must be campaigning for the same nomination, so it makes sense he'd say that. if he loses Iowa and New Hampshire, he'd be in a difficult spot heading into South Carolina.

Elizabeth Warren would tax the daylights out of the .01%, and also tax the remaining .99% to pay for it all, along with a tax on businesses. that is to say, the burden will fall principally on the 1% and business owners.

so, there you have it.

her campaign is very different than Mr. Buttigeig's - who proposes lots of stuff and is quite mysterious as to where the funding for any of it comes from. you may not like Mrs. Warren's plans, but she has them.

she's not running Trump style (I have a plan. its a very, very good plan. its so good that i can't tell you about it yet, but when you see it, you're going to be so happy - you won't be able to stand being so happy. you'll be sick with happiness.).

- IGIT

Her numbers don’t add up (everyone but Bernie attacked her with it) and it’s willful ignorance to think otherwise.

 

[PEB]

 

[LMP]

My biggest take away from this Warren vs Bernie thing, is that Warren would be a horrible candidate. I believe that Amy Klobuchar would make a much better candidate. I still think Sanders, Buttiegieg, and Klobuchar could all beat Trump. Biden I am unsure about at this point. I am very concerned about his mental health at this point. I dont believe he has the cognitive ability to make it anymore.

 

[Jack V Savage]

My biggest take aw as y from this Warren vs Bernie thing is that Warren would be a horrible candidate. I believe that Amy Klobuchar would make a much better candidate. I still think Sanders, Buttiegieg, and Klobuchar could all beat Trump. Biden I am unsure about at this point. I am very concerned about his mental health at this point. I dont believe he has the cognitive ability to make it anymore.

My biggest takeaway is that there are two kinds of people: People who when they see someone getting picked on by a crowd want to join in and those of us who see it and move to chase the crowd away. And a surprising number of the first type consider themselves to be leftists. The difference between Berniebots and Trumpers is really just what crowd they join first.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

What exactly is "childish" about opposing lies? Do you think it's good when people insist that you hold positions you don't hold, even after you prove that you were right? Trotsky knew exactly what he was doing, too (it wasn't an honest mistake) because we had the same discussions at the time. He tries to hide it by dishonestly denying that his previous account was him, but we all know the truth.

Who was his previous account?

 

[xcvbn]

This goes for all of you. Leave me out of it.

If you have to reference Jack's meltdown with me, you have my permission to name me without tags.

@Anung Un Rama

Lighten up

 

[sickc0d3r]

I would much rather have someone make an outlandish, unsubstantiated claim about me than put words in my mouth and state I said something to them once in private that I not only didn't say but that was in direct opposition to my entire moral being.

The latter is far, far more egregious.

Consider the difference:

"John Smith may be a phile. Look into it and make up your own mind."

"John Smith once told me in the locker room at the gym that he has sexually violated boys as young as six."

If you're "John Smith", which is worse?

Bad analogy, imo. In this case people can reasonably assume a simple misunderstanding.

 

[Trotsky]

There's no meltdown, and you're lying about the point of conflict, which was your decision to lie about my positions in 2015 and 2016 and smear me personally rather than try to deal rationally with disagreement. When other hysterical, dishonest Berniebots repeat your smearing, the issue comes back up. And your attempts to frame not liking having my views lied about as some kind of failing say more about your character than I can.

Anyone can view the exchange and verify that you are lying. And, no, I didn't need to go to your character to indict that laughable argument. I did to return an insult. You needed to call me detached from reality in the first place because you couldn't handle objective truths that were neither disparaging to Clinton nor relevant to you. Which is why, since then, you've repeatedly called me a Berniebot and I haven't once called you a Hillary shill. Because my argument was rational and yours was not.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Bad analogy, imo. In this case people can reasonably assume a simple misunderstanding.

You were comparing Trump's claim that Cruz's dad killed JFK to Warren's claim that Bernie once privately told her a woman couldn't be president. That was the A and B basis of my analogy.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Anyone can view the exchange and verify that you are lying.

Wrong. https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/157640963/ And you can read the posts around that one.

And, no, I didn't need to go to your character to indict that laughable argument. I did to return an insult. You needed to call me detached from reality in the first place because you couldn't handle objective truths that were neither disparaging to Clinton nor relevant to you. Which is why, since then, you've repeatedly called me a Berniebot and I haven't once called you a Hillary shill. Because my argument was rational and yours was not.

Or because nothing I have said could be construed as shilling for Clinton while you are obviously an irrational Bernie fan. There's quite a difference between "meh, they're both OK, not a big difference" and your position on Bernie relative to Clinton (who I believe you've said that you "hate"). Furthermore, I provided evidence definitively refuting your charges of revisionism, while your response was just to say that you didn't need to provide evidence because other Berniebots agreed with you. As I said, your own actions say more than I can about what kind of man you are.

 

[Trotsky]

Wrong. https://forums.sherdog.com/posts/157640963/ And you can read the posts around that one.



Or because nothing I have said could be construed as shilling for Clinton while you are obviously an irrational Bernie fan. There's quite a difference between "meh, they're both OK, not a big difference" and your position on Bernie relative to Clinton (who I believe you've said that you "hate"). Furthermore, I provided evidence definitively refuting your charges of revisionism, while your response was just to say that you didn't need to provide evidence because other Berniebots agreed with you. As I said, your own actions say more than I can about what kind of man you are.

I'm not getting sucked back into your bad faith nonsense. I seriously think you have narcissistic personality disorder, and have thought that for some time, and that it keeps you from being remotely objective, introspective, or self-critical and causes you to constantly exalt yourself and disparage others.

That you've invented this entire alternate history where I've engaged in a propaganda campaign against you, a time during which I have in reality defended you countless times (including against the "Berniebots" you so childishly attack and group me with) and repeatedly cited you as a good poster, supports that theory.

Next time you feel the need to tag me, take a moment, take a deep breath, and then fuck off.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'm not getting sucked back into your bad faith nonsense. I seriously think you have narcissistic personality disorder, and have thought that for some time, and that it keeps you from being remotely objective, introspective, or self-critical and causes you to constantly exalt yourself and disparage others.

That you've invented this entire alternate history where I've engaged in a propaganda campaign against you, a time during which I have in reality defended you countless times (including against the "Berniebots" you so childishly attack and group me with) and repeatedly cited you as a good poster, supports that theory.

Next time you feel the need to tag me, take a moment, take a deep breath, and then fuck off.

As for the accusations of bad faith, only one of us has provided evidence for our positions, while another one of us has insisted that it's not necessary (even in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence). God forbid you should try to show that your attacks are true. And, sure, only someone with some kind of personality disorder would object to you lying about them continually over a period of multiple years.

 

[Aldo4Ever]

My biggest takeaway is that there are two kinds of people: People who when they see someone getting picked on by a crowd want to join in and those of us who see it and move to chase the crowd away.

Or perhaps many people are independently coming to the conclusion that Elizabeth Warren is a horrible person and are expressing that view.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Or perhaps many people are independently coming to the conclusion that Elizabeth Warren is a horrible person and are expressing that view.

I don't necessarily find her to be a "horrible Person".

But, she is a horrible candidate, has no zeal, no sense of strength or leadership. I find what she did to Bernie to be horrible, and a chicken shit, horrible political tactic.

she's dropping the polls and right now she's +700 according to Vegas odds for her becoming the Dem Nominee.

 

[xcvbn]

I don't necessarily find her to be a "horrible Person".

But, she is a horrible candidate, has no zeal, no sense of strength or leadership. I find what she did to Bernie to be horrible, and a chicken shit, horrible political tactic.

she's dropping the polls and right now she's +700 according to Vegas odds for her becoming the Dem Nominee.

As I’ve said her campaign was dying a slow death so she decided either one last Hail Mary attempt or just said fuck it I’m taking one of these assholes with me

Either way it was a disastrous decision that will leave a lingering false narrative which somehow Bernie will be blamed for. “The View” as pathetic and useless as a show it may be is watched by millions and those people are fully onboard some sort of boycott against Sanders.

Really quite sad and pathetic Warren chose to do this but I’m not sure it makes her a horrible person as much as a fucking idiot

 

[Shoguns Prodigy**]

Yang2020

 

[Fawlty]

@BarryDillon kinda sad to see you "like" Trots saying JVS has a mental disorder. Are you really that all-in? I mean, do what you want, but that's some dogshit.

 

[xcvbn]

@BarryDillon kinda sad to see you "like" Trots saying JVS has a mental disorder. Are you really that all-in? I mean, do what you want, but that's some dogshit.

He should at least be evaluated

 

[Fawlty]

He should at least be evaluated

I remember one of the last things you said to me was "get the fuck out of the way!" about not being super keen on the strategy and positions of the far left of the party. I think that excuses you entirely from contributing. You're about as crazy as VivaR (and 5% as interesting), and that's not a low bar.