Elections 2016 Presidential Election General Discussion

[The Diplomat]

He's just the best, least corrupt to his eyeballs option is all

It's hard for me to look at Trump's candidacy with rose tinted glasses. He's like a walking right wing billboard with all of the essential talking points, but he can't seem to go a single day without saying some REALLY stupid shit. I even know some supporters of his that just wish he would stay quiet every now and then.

 

[ucunc156]

Yeah, but not really. The liberals are still able to feed off their economically viable counterparts in this current model.

Split the sides cleanly and see what happens when the welfare well dries up . Shit will get medieval no joke , especially since Hillary will have long since disarmed the law abiding sector and the savages will astonishingly still be ably to get assault rifles.

Think Morlocks and Eloi from The Time Traveller.

Well this is one of the most incorrect statements in this whole misinformed thread.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

 

[The Diplomat]

Well this is one of the most incorrect statements in this whole misinformed thread.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

Funny, considering red/southern/right wing states are more dependent on government welfare than their liberal counterparts.

Top five most government dependent states:

1. Mississippi
2. New Mexico
3. Alabama
4. Louisiana
5. Tennessee

New York? 41. Illinois is 45 and California is 46.

 

[Gervinho]

Lying about minor things vs lying about very serious crimes...I dunno...

Lying when one doesnt have to is sign of person not being stable. Its much more understandable people lie when they fuck up. But Trump lies about everything and has no care for facts. If you see a person lying constantly about everything, what makes you think they wouldnt lie about major thing? Somehow the republicans has managed to find a bigger liar than Hillary

 

[Hans Gruber]

I'm all about personal responsibility and I support being conservative with spending.

Unfortunately Trump happens to deny science, place the blame on specific groups for the countrys problems, and is incredibly selfish. Those are things I could never support.

If Trump is invoking violence why is most of the violence coming from the other side?

I am more worried about Hillary's corruption. Speaking of selfish...what. kind of leader puts national security at risk for their own convenience.

She is bought and owned. Those that donated to the private Clinton Foundation received special favors through her position at the State Dept.

She armed terrorists irresponsibly as seen with her Lybia debacle (which she was warned against multiple times by experts)

Her tenure as Secretary of State was failure after failure and she couldn't even name a legit accomplishment that she had as Sec of State in an interview

 

[TheComebackKid]

It's hard for me to look at Trump's candidacy with rose tinted glasses. He's like a walking right wing billboard with all of the essential talking points, but he can't seem to go a single day without saying some REALLY stupid shit. I even know some supporters of his that just wish he would stay quiet every now and then.

Well of course its all about perspective. One could say he keeps saying REALLY stupid shit. Or one could say that he isn't saying really stupid shit at all but rather the media, the political establishment, the power structure as a whole, and his general detractors paint what he says as really stupid in order to influence opinions and perceptions. If it is the latter then there is nothing he can do. He could say "have a nice day" and his critics would say "he hates night!".

 

[TheComebackKid]

Lying when one doesnt have to is sign of person not being stable.

Committing untold number of crimes and then lying about them for years and years even after the truth comes out isn't?

 

[The Diplomat]

Well of course its all about perspective. One could say he keeps saying REALLY stupid shit. Or one could say that he isn't saying really stupid shit at all but rather the media, the political establishment, the power structure as a whole, and his general detractors paint what he says as really stupid in order to influence opinions and perceptions. If it is the latter then there is nothing he can do. He could say "have a nice day" and his critics would say "he hates night!".

I keep hearing you and others blame the media, but it's not the media that speaks for Donald Trump, they only take what he says and repeat it over and over again.

I could watch a speech like in Wilmington earlier this week, and get the gist of what he meant without CNN telling me so. Or the whole "MVP/Founder of ISIS" thing, they even asked him specifically if he was kidding (even the media trying to help him out ) and he says emphatically "No, they really are the founders of ISIS." Then a day or two later, he says he was being sarcastic/joking.

Is he just tellin' it like it is, or does he sometimes put his foot in his mouth and it takes days of campaign advisers yelling at him to step back from it?

 

[Thurisaz]

Your reasoning is horribly flawed for one simple reason. Trump incites violence and creates divisions within the American population itself. Yesterday I watched a montage of him provoking people to get violent with protesters at his rallies.

You know, "elect who we want or we start using violence" isn't a good persuasion tactic from your side.

 

[TheComebackKid]

I keep hearing you and others blame the media, but it's not the media that speaks for Donald Trump, they only take what he says and repeat it over and over again.

They play them over and over again while splicing up his comments and adding their own extremely negative commentary on top of it. They could do that to Hillary if they liked but they do not.

I mean this really isn't even debatable Dip. The media is on a mission to destroy Trump. You don't have to be a Trump supporter to admit that...but you have to be aware and/or honest.

Is he just tellin' it like it is, or does he sometimes put his foot in his mouth and it takes days of campaign advisers yelling at him to step back from it?

He does put his foot in his mouth at times but far more often he is just having his words spun or people act outraged about relatively benign comments or statements that are entirely true.

But again, its about perspective. If you don't see and do not want to see the coordinated effort to destroy the outsider who called out the powers that be(that includes the media and republican establishment) and galvanized millions against them then you never will and we will never have a fruitful exchange on the subject.

 

[The Diplomat]

They play them over and over again while splicing up his comments and adding their own extremely negative commentary on top of it. They could do that to Hillary if they liked but they do not.

I mean this really isn't even debatable Dip. The media is on a mission to destroy Trump. You don't have to be a Trump supporter to admit that...but you have to be aware and/or honest.



He does put his foot in his mouth at times but far more often he is just having his words spun or people act outraged about relatively benign comments or statements that are entirely true.

But again, its about perspective. If you don't see and do not want to see the coordinated effort to destroy the outsider who called out the powers that be(that includes the media and republican establishment) and galvanized millions against them then you never will and we will never have a fruitful exchange on the subject.

Oh, the media is a shill business and is extremely biased, that's a given. That's been known since the dawn of time. But you can't blame CNN or FOX for everything that Trump says.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Oh, the media is a shill business and is extremely biased, that's a given. That's been known since the dawn of time. But you can't blame CNN or FOX for everything that Trump says.

I'm not blaming them for what Trump says...only how they paint what he says and how they react to it.

But if you know the media are shills then why do you resist the notion that they are using their media tactics to hurt Trump as much as possible?

 

[The Diplomat]

I'm not blaming them for what Trump says...only how they paint what he says and how they react to it.

But if you know the media are shills then why do you resist the notion that they are using their media tactics to hurt Trump as much as possible?

I'm not resisting that at all, nor have I implied it. I thought it was common knowledge. Hillary is the media darling** and Trump is the big bad wolf, I get it. But I don't hold mainstream media in high regard when it comes to partisan politics, ESPECIALLY around election season.

My POINT is that Trump himself is the one saying all of this stuff. CNN may take what he says, repeat it, and have their contributors bash it for a few hours, but they always have a pro-Trump supporter on to defend him (and they look agitated every time).

The thing is, CNN didn't put those words in Trumps mouth, and you and others refuse to hold him accountable for ANYTHING he says. It's always the media twisting his words. No matter what he says. Literally every time. We've had this conversation maybe 3-4 times over the last year regarding different things he's said, and it's always "The media is twisting it. He's tellin it like it is, etc." You won't acknowledge that he says some really stupid stuff and would probably benefit from not talking so much. It's always the leftist media's fault, no matter what.

It must get tiring having to repeatedly defend someone who continuously steps back from their own comments.

[edit]** To a point. All I ever really hear about Clinton on mainstream media is about her emails, the FBI investigations, Justice Department negating further investigation, etc. She takes a beating now and then, as well, so we can't pretend it's all on Trump.

 

[ucunc156]

Funny, considering red/southern/right wing states are more dependent on government welfare than their liberal counterparts.

Top five most government dependent states:

1. Mississippi
2. New Mexico
3. Alabama
4. Louisiana
5. Tennessee

New York? 41. Illinois is 45 and California is 46.

I'm confused... Are you disagreeing with my point?

 

[The Diplomat]

I'm confused... Are you disagreeing with my point?

No, just further emphasizing it.

 

[Sycho Sid]

Hillary on Comey:

"He said I told the truth"

Do you even realize how pathetic this response is?

 

[ucunc156]

No, just further emphasizing it.

Ah okay.

Yeah to my knowledge, the ranking showed that state governments fighting for "small government" and more autonomy, seem to be most reliant on federal welfare. And as far as individual dependency on federal welfare, again, the "takers" seem to be far more from red states than blue states.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I honestly put more blame on the parties for letting this happen.

The GOP spent 8 years whipping thesee people into an anti Obama fever pitch until they lost control of it.

The Dem party isn't nearly as guilty but they've obviously done a bad job at getting a message to older blue collar whites who are starting to feel disenfranchised

If "older, blue-collar whites" is code for "people who primarily vote on the basis of white identity politics," Democrats have gotten their message to them, and that's why they vote R.

One thing that bothers me in this cycle is that we're seeing a lot of understanding pieces on white backlash, talking about how they're facing economic insecurity and no one seems to care so naturally (if regrettably), they're scapegoating minorities, etc. But it's not like there was no racial animosity during the period that they're supposedly nostalgic for. Like, "oh, if you were white, you used to be able to graduate high school and be entitled to a high-paying job that allowed you to buy a house and two cars and have a stay-at-home wife, etc." So OK, that happened in some places at some times, I guess, but racism was even worse then than it is now. It's not an explanation.

 

[Benjamin Burton]

why is it that trump is always ahead in every live poll i see?

http://abcnewsgo.co/2016/08/abc-live-poll-who-are-you-voting-for/

http://nbcpoll.com/nbc-poll-vote-future-president-2/

 

[ucunc156]

If "older, blue-collar whites" is code for "people who primarily vote on the basis of white identity politics," Democrats have gotten their message to them, and that's why they vote R.

One thing that bothers me in this cycle is that we're seeing a lot of understanding pieces on white backlash, talking about how they're facing economic insecurity and no one seems to care so naturally (if regrettably), they're scapegoating minorities, etc. But it's not like there was no racial animosity during the period that they're supposedly nostalgic for. Like, "oh, if you were white, you used to be able to graduate high school and be entitled to a high-paying job that allowed you to buy a house and two cars and have a stay-at-home wife, etc." So OK, that happened in some places at some times, I guess, but racism was even worse then than it is now. It's not an explanation.

I talked about it in an above post, but I don't think its necessarily them embracing white identity politics. I'd say yes, there is a group of white working class voters who are on hard times and so they lash out at whats changed the most that they can see: minority prominence. But there is a solid block that have voted R basically since the 60s, because it made some sense back then, that has been absolutely betrayed by the republican party, and so they lashed out and got the furthest thing from a normal republican candidate they could find. They weren't willing to turn 50 years of voting tendencies on their head and admit trickle down and other republican economics were shit, so they latched on to the guy that had a different economic message from most republicans (at least as far as trade goes), but was still running as a republican.