Elections 2016 Presidential Election General Discussion

[VivaRevolution]

First comments (at the rally):

"they don't know what the hell they're doing"
"probably a Hillary person"
"and then you wonder why (this country) is going to hell" - (claiming the fire marshal is incompetent).

He starts off by saying this is what's wrong with America, and suggests it was a plot by a democrat. He also mentions the large crowd twice.


Prior to taking the stage, to reporters, referring to the fire marshal allowing only 10% over capacity:

"purely for political reasons,"
"politics at its lowest."


That, to your eyes, is Trump actually saying how successful he is? That's the thrust of the message? There's no way, you're seeing this one through orange-colored glasses imo.

He was also pandering to his crowd with saying over regulation, and too much government is the problem, but yeah, what he was doing there was telling everyone that so many people show up to his rallies, that the Fire Marshal has to turn people away.

This is my problem here. Why not call out Trump for inferring that too much government regulation was the problem, while also arguing that we need to use regulation for trade, banking, and wages to help the middle class out?

There are legit criticisms of Trump I will not defend him from, one major one being that his populist rhetoric is constantly contradicted by his own statements.

This idea that Trump is just an idiot shooting from his hip, is propaganda.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Being an obnoxious twat and screeching about Mexicans and Muslims was enough to win the Republican nomination. The general election is a different beast. He's running an extremely undisciplined campaign at the moment and making a lot of unforced errors. Christ even the most biased Trumpsters around here have admitted as much.

No he isn't. He jumped the shark on the Gold star family story for sure, but the rest is pure calculation.

19% of this country thinks we are on the right path.

In the past when that number hit 40%, political wave elections followed.

There is a reason that Bill Clinton said "change" 12 times in his convention speech, and it is because anyone selling the status quo, for example risk adverse professionally polished political campaigns, is in a very weak position.

Every time Trump is non-PC, or controversial without apology, he is telling people he is something different. That he is the change candidate.

 

[HereticBD]

Yeah, no one's going to care about any of that shit within 7 days. Just remember to mentally prepare yourselves because he is going to win. Because he's going to gaffe his way through the whole election season and still win and you guys are going to have mental breakdowns if you aren't ready for that.

The many ways Donald Trump's campaign was ended, according to Liberals over the past year:

- Proposed ban on Muslims

- Mexicans are sending rapists and murderers over to the US suggestion

- Megan Kelly "Blood" remark.

- John McCain "POW ain't no hero" remark

- Where are your Tax returns?

- Mexican Judge is biased remark

- RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA!

- Muslim wife is probably being commanded to shut her mouth remark.


Feel free to add to the list of "Trump's Campaign Ending Faults According To Liberals". I'm sure I missed a few.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

No he isn't. He jumped the shark on the Gold star family story for sure, but the rest is pure calculation.

19% of this country thinks we are on the right path.

In the past when that number hit 40%, political wave elections followed.

There is a reason that Bill Clinton said "change" 12 times in his convention speech, and it is because anyone selling the status quo, for example risk adverse professionally polished political campaigns, is in a very weak position.

Every time Trump is non-PC, or controversial without apology, he is telling people he is something different. That he is the change candidate.

Ahh so you're one of those guys that thinks every time Trump says something stupid he's playing 12th dimensional chess.

And this is "marketing".



Holy shit you're the dumbest motherfucker alive.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Ahh so you're one of those guys that thinks every time Trump says something stupid he's playing 12th dimensional chess.

And this is "marketing".



Holy shit you're the dumbest motherfucker alive.

No, I am one of these guys that thinks what I hear from Trump, is actually coming from Donald Trump, and not a political consulting team.

Because he isn't repeating marketed and tested talking points over and over, he steps into shit all the time that the media is quick to play there silly little games with.

See the reason why most politicians look like Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush, is because this is what the media does to you if you don't play by their rules, and their rules are simple......100% risk aversion, 100% of the time. Don't ever tell anyone what you actually think, check with your political consultants, and give the answer with the highest approval ratings, and hope the American people never get wise to the empty bill of goods that is being sold.

Well, much of the American populace has become wise, and Donald Trump is the result.

I know Donald Trump is full of shit, but atleast he is a different flavor of full of shit then I have been sold for decades now.

 

[ufcfan4]

Can't help but feel that Trump is like a dog chasing a car- if he gets it, he won't know what to do with it.

depends on what your meaning of is is was always one of my favorite confounding political statements. I was like 12 at the time and remember even then thinking that's some slick pollitician shit right there.

 

[ufcfan4]

Trump doesn't strike me as electable in a general. Maybe I'm off base but I tend to think like David Axelrod or one of the other CNN commentators said, what got Trump here (the GOP nomination), won't get him there (the White House).

It's tough though cause Donald has said about 100 things that would have been career suicide for anyone else but he's persevered. The same rules don't apply. Hillary very well might make mincemeat of him in the debates because she is very smart and has a very good knowledge base when it comes to policy. But the question is, will that matter? Trump's supporters seem pretty hardcore. I don't think there's going to be a lot of mobility when it comes to candidate support.

I'm just curious what route a lot of independents and leery Republicans go.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Can't help but feel that Trump is like a dog chasing a car- if he gets it, he won't know what to do with it.


depends on what your meaning of is is was always one of my favorite confounding political statements. I was like 12 at the time and remember even then thinking that's some slick pollitician shit right there.

I remember thinking that as well at the time.

What is funny looking back on it, is that now I can see how clearly the way the media covered that statement shaped public opinion of it.

The majority of the media was saying what you just said...."Look at what a savvy politician Clinton is."

If instead the media narrative would have been...."What a slimy and intentionally dishonest individual Clinton is."

He probably would have been impeached.

 

[Fawlty]

He was also pandering to his crowd with saying over regulation, and too much government is the problem, but yeah, what he was doing there was telling everyone that so many people show up to his rallies, that the Fire Marshal has to turn people away.

This is my problem here. Why not call out Trump for inferring that too much government regulation was the problem, while also arguing that we need to use regulation for trade, banking, and wages to help the middle class out?

There are legit criticisms of Trump I will not defend him from, one major one being that his populist rhetoric is constantly contradicted by his own statements.

This idea that Trump is just an idiot shooting from his hip, is propaganda.

I really do think he shoots from the hip most of the time, and he's much better by contrast when he's prepared. For reference, his two big speeches (winning primary & accepting nom) were both well prepared and delivered proficiently, with messages as clear as you can expect to get out of Trump. If his message is that government regulation is "bad" then he's going to have to draw from cleaner wells than "that democrat fire marshal plotting against me." Or me and 53% of America are going to take a giant shit on him.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I really do think he shoots from the hip most of the time, and he's much better by contrast when he's prepared. For reference, his two big speeches (winning primary & accepting nom) were both well prepared and delivered proficiently, with messages as clear as you can expect to get out of Trump. If his message is that government regulation is "bad" then he's going to have to draw from cleaner wells than "that democrat fire marshal plotting against me." Or me and 53% of America are going to take a giant shit on him.

Donald Trump is a chameleon. His message is whatever the crowd he is talking to wants to hear.

He needs more prepared stuff, but he would be a fool to retire what got him here.

Controversy is Trump's brand right now.

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

since it is war room related

 

[Fawlty]

Donald Trump is a chameleon. His message is whatever the crowd he is talking to wants to hear.

He needs more prepared stuff, but he would be a fool to retire what got him here.

Controversy is Trump's brand right now.

Maybe we're getting to our biggest disagreement here, bolded. He's a chameleon on his stances themselves but not in his rhetorical message. That is what I don't see coming from Trump. You know how crafty politicians (any of them, really) will give a more yokel-ish, downhome message to a rally crowd, and speak higher in their brains to the mainstream press, and even higher when they're going with a more intellectual, smaller demo? That pretty much doesn't exist with Trump. It's the same low target every time, whether it's the NY Times or Cleveland or public Colorado. Trump is carrying himself as if what we see is what we get, but what we get is this anti-intellectual nonsense, every time.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Maybe we're getting to our biggest disagreement here, bolded. He's a chameleon on his stances themselves but not in his rhetorical message. That is what I don't see coming from Trump. You know how crafty politicians (any of them, really) will give a more yokel-ish, downhome message to a rally crowd, and speak higher in their brains to the mainstream press, and even higher when they're going with a more intellectual, smaller demo? That pretty much doesn't exist with Trump. It's the same low target every time, whether it's the NY Times or Cleveland or public Colorado. Trump is carrying himself as if what we see is what we get, but what we get is this anti-intellectual nonsense, every time.

Why do you find his rhetoric on Muslims or Immigration to be anymore legitimate, than his populace rhetoric?

BTW, when Trump talks trade, or media, or bought and paid for corrupt political establishments, I tend to agree with him, and find his rhetoric more intellectual then those who tell me over and over that this is all conspiracy theory garbage.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

No, I am one of these guys that thinks what I hear from Trump, is actually coming from Donald Trump, and not a political consulting team.

Because he isn't repeating marketed and tested talking points over and over, he steps into shit all the time that the media is quick to play there silly little games with.

I agree with this somewhat. I remember being terrified when they ditched Lewendowski in favor of Manafort, the former being in favor of letting Trump be Trump, and the latter wanting a more scripted, presidential Trump. As it turns out, you can't stop Trump being Trump. Now he's stepping in shit and in your little fantasy world that's always the media's fault and never his own.

See the reason why most politicians look like Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush, is because this is what the media does to you if you don't play by their rules, and their rules are simple......100% risk aversion, 100% of the time. Don't ever tell anyone what you actually think, check with your political consultants, and give the answer with the highest approval ratings, and hope the American people never get wise to the empty bill of goods that is being sold.

Well, much of the American populace has become wise, and Donald Trump is the result.

I know Donald Trump is full of shit, but atleast he is a different flavor of full of shit then I have been sold for decades now.

Trump cruised through the GOP primaries because conservatives no longer have the capacity to care about anything beyond identity politics. They wanted anti-PC Now he's in the general and saying dumb shit can actually hurt him.

Your problem is that you're starting from the position that the status quo / establishment is the worst of all possible outcomes and that anything else is preferable, even a yam faced white supremacist with a child's grasp of basic policy. Call me a cynic but I'll happily take the empty bill of goods over something much, much worse.

He's a different different flavor of shit alright, he's shit mixed with AIDS infected needles. But hey that's new and different which is automatically appealing to you.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I agree with this somewhat. I remember being terrified when they ditched Lewendowski in favor of Manafort, the former being in favor of letting Trump be Trump, and the latter wanting a more scripted, presidential Trump. As it turns out, you can't stop Trump being Trump. Now he's stepping in shit and in your little fantasy world that's always the media's fault and never his own.




Trump cruised through the GOP primaries because conservatives no longer have the capacity to care about anything beyond identity politics. They wanted anti-PC Now he's in the general and saying dumb shit can actually hurt him.

Your problem is that you're starting from the position that the status quo / establishment is the worst of all possible outcomes and that anything else is preferable, even a yam faced white supremacist with a child's grasp of basic policy. Call me a cynic but I'll happily take the empty bill of goods over something much, much worse.

He's a different different flavor of shit alright, he's shit mixed with AIDS infected needles. But hey that's new and different which is automatically appealing to you.

Well, I have explained this at length before. Even did a thread on it over the weekend that got merged.

Donald Trump = Anarchy candidate

Hillary Clinton = Boiling frog candidate

If you stay in a boiling pot long enough, it is no longer just an uncomfortably warm bath, it is suicide.

I think we are approaching a point of no return with the boiling pot, which makes anarchy preferable to me.

 

[Joe]

Considering Trumps whole argument for running for pres is I'm rich, successful and I employ people. its always amusing when( richer, more successful and employ more) billionaires criticize him.

 

[in the]

Organized media campaign against Trump... and the polls are as close as they've been in a long time.

Even the Shillbots (Correct The Record?) can't put Hillary over the hump.

Those of you doing a victory dance might be looking really dumb in November.

 

[in the]

LOL, and this hit job by the media, minus the gold star family story which is legitimate, is exactly the corporate media smear tactics, that make me say that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Fuck the corporate media, and the corporatists that are destroying this country.

I know whose side they stand on.

As for the whole "Khan" shit, no one comes out looking good.

The father bashes Trump, a man who did not vote to put his son in that situation, and supports the one candidate who did put his son in harm's way.

Hillary exploits real tragedy in the most hypocritical way possible (see sentence above).

Trump looks thin-skinned, as if he has to answer any and every criticism levied against him. It's retarded.

The press, overblowing the topic and colluding behind the scenes (JournoList) to push that narrative until it affects the polls.

No one comes out of that situation looking good. Even the Khans want out.

I wonder if that has anything to do with people digging into his history to find out that he's had deep ties with Saudi Arabia for decades, wrote a paper on Sharia law, pushes the whole "terrorism has nothing to do with Islam" narrative, and whose father is part of the Muslim Brotherhood. He should have known by now - weaponized autism will find out anything and everything about you.

 

[in the]

Gotta love that Paul Ryan has bent over backwards to stay loyal to his party's nominee and in return Trump gives Ryan's primary opponent a shoutout.

I don't know whether to or .

You haven't been paying much attention if you thing Ryan has "bent over backwards" to support Trump.

 

[Diamond Jim]

I don't know whether to or .

You haven't been paying much attention if you thing Ryan has "bent over backwards" to support Trump.

Clearly he doesn't want Trump as the nominee but calling him the textbook definition of a racist while saying he will be voting for him is supporting him.

Every time Trump says something dumb, Ryan is forced to defend him. He does so clearly half heartedly, but he still does.