Elections 2016 Presidential Election General Discussion v2

[Handsomebwonderfull]

Not a trump guy. I read around 4-500 pages a day. Easily.

 

[Metal_Daze]

By the looks of it, it would appear that you have read neither Dostoyevsky nor Nietzsche.
Two very ironic authors to chose from and then to include the bolded/underlined portion (I'm referring to the substance of the material.... not the quality of the books).

Who said I did? I used them as extreme examples of authors people claim to have read but rarely have. Or more likely, they have skimmed the surface and now consider themselves experts.

I've read 1 or 2 Dostoyevsky books in French but that was long ago, back in high school. I did not read Nietzsche but I took a lot of philosophy courses. I would never ever claim to be an expert on any of these authors. The only author I consider myself an expert on is JRR Tolkien: "a Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna miriel"

Examples of useful books I read: I named Machiavelli's "The Prince", I can also add Sun Tzu's Art of War. These are not hard books to read, it's not arid philosophy like Nietzsche. Yet, read them and you'll instantly start to see things in this Presidential race. You might even see Trump's strategy in a new light. It will not change your mind in a heartbeat but if it makes you go "I can't believe people used to do that 400 hundred years ago and it still works!", I'll be happy.

 

[IDL]

I'm not dehumanizing anyone. My premise is clear: more reading = more open minds. A closed mind individual is still human, just much easier to manipulate.

Do you agree?

Look, Trump himself has written more books than I'll ever write. I bet he'd have to read a lot to reach the number of books I read in my life!

He's still human, I'm not better than him. But he can't manipulate me.

If you were going to manipulate someone, wouldn't you think open minded people would be more receptive to cons? Either way I don't think closed minded vs open minded is the factor there. It's probably easiest to con people with less life experience in general, so younger people. It's why state indoctrination historically targets the youth. That is not to say older people can't be conned though, because of course they can be.

I also don't think it's a matter of more reading = more open minds. It can be true in many cases, but as others have said it depends on what your reading. If someone reads the Quran and Hadiths his entire life he will become one way (open minded in some ways, closed in others), if someone reads just communist literature they may become a die hard communist, etc.

To be completely open, is to know nothing. Should I be open to 2+2 = 5 when I am sure that it is untrue? Should I be open to making mistakes I have already made and learned from? I think only a new born baby is completely open. But, I'm sure you mean open minded in a general sense or 'worldly', but I don't think that automatically would place someone towards one candidate or another. It would really depend on why.

 

[lfd0311]

I answered that: 2-3 a month, mainly fantasy, sci-fi and classic literature. Not much "arid reading" since I left college.

I have a Master degree in Anthropology if you must know. I'm not a straight intellectual but I did workout my mind more than my body.

So yeah, I can admit my bias on "acceptance of the other" and "all cultures have equal worth" theory.

What's your favorite I guess for lack of a better term "genre" of fantasy novels? How about the classics?

Anthropology is an interesting subject. Honestly, I don't see much "acceptance of others" coming out of the Academics on the left. It's either get in line with what we think, or we'll destroy you.

 

[lecter]

I spend 8 hours a day on Serdog and still read 2-3 books a month. In French and English. That doesn't make me intelligent or better, just literate.

All my readings have mold my mind to reject bigotry, discrimination and hate of "strangers." Maybe it's what I choose to read. I read a lot of Fantasy, Sci-Fi and classic literature.

It doesn't make me better, it just gives me a wider perspective than a guy who want to "get rid of all immigrants and make our Country, founded on immigration and acceptance of the others, great again.

All you say only makes sense under the assumption that Trump supporters are "less open minded", have some sort of "hate" towards strangers and are manipulated.
Which is a conclusion based on your own political views.

 

[TheBlondBomber]

Color me impressed!

I'm surprised not to find Machiavelli on your list but I'm sure you read that too. Trump has read it for sure (or paid a guy to read it for him). His tactic of "appealing to people's fear to usurp power" is textbook Prince material!

As a literate and very focused individual, you must realize this.

What's you stance on it? Do you subscribe to the "everything goes, as long as I get the Power. Then, I'll change things for the better" theory?

Because I sure don't...

I think all politicians do that. I think the vast majority of them are scumbags. Hillary being at the top. Hillary is appealing to people's fear of Trump to gain power, while having virtually no redeeming qualities.

She talks of Trump being temperamentally unfit to be president while she laughs about a man being sodomized with a bayonet. She talks of Trump getting to cozy with the Russians, but there she was with a re-set button. She talks about erros in judgment, but she was the Senator who voted for the Iraq War even with access to intelligence that no private citizen (Trump) had. She is the epitome of your quote. She was vehemently opposed to gay marriage until it was poltically convenient. Her entire life is a great big power grab at the expense of the American people. Give me the guy who has worked an honest day in his life, as opposed a bloodthirsty leech.

 

[Renard]

It could even eradicate things like bigotry, misogyny, racism and immigration paranoia.

I'm going to need more information, I can't quite tell what ideology you follow yet.

If a million illegal immigrants showed up in Quebec, I bet you'd be eager to pay for their welfare, pay for their health costs, pay for their education, pay for their babies. Good thing Canada doesn't share a border with a poor country, we don't have to put to the test just how many stupid people like you there are.

 

[TheBlondBomber]

Ah, being is school probably does make that a little easier.

For real. 1L forces you to read more than you evr thought possible.

 

[Handsomebwonderfull]

All you say only makes sense under the assumption that Trump supporters are "less open minded", have some sort of "hate" towards strangers and are manipulated.
Which is a conclusion based on your own political views.

Lol. Of course the average trump fan is close minded compared to a Hillary fan. Duh

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

How many books do you read in a year?

It's not a judgement thing or a "I'm better than you" gimmick. I just sincerely want to know. You don't have to read Dostoevsky and Nietzsche to be eligible. Damn, if you read everything by Ann Coulter, I won't judge you: I'll put you in the "reading books regularly" team.

Of course, I have a premise: reading books, any book, stimulate the brain. If helps you organize the information and gain access to it rapidly. It also stimulates the love or writing, which is even better: it forces you to really dig into your brain, access long-time stocked information and mix it up with things you just heard, things you imagine and things that don't exist yet.

My hypothesis is simple: If reading and writing were common practice in the US, we wouldn't see what we're seeing in this Presidential race. If reading and writing were encouraged and hyped by the media as much as movies, shows and music, it would raise the overall level of discussion. It could even eradicate things like bigotry, misogyny, racism and immigration paranoia.

So just tell me Trump fans: how many books do you read in a year?

If a mod or a platinum could create a poll, it would be great. Just answer with a simple number if you don't want to engage in the discussion.
___________

PS: I rarely post in the War Room so be kind...

I re-read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand every year.

Beyond thay, most of the books I read are about the history and/or my industy. Right now my office bathroom reader is a book detailing the history of wheat marketing in America.

 

[snakedafunky]

I am wondering how long it would take a good reader to read 30,000 deleted emails.

 

[MC Paul Barman]

Who said I did? I used them as extreme examples of authors people claim to have read but rarely have.

I've read 1 or 2 Dostoyevsky books in French but that was long ago, back in high school...

I'm just commenting on the substance of their writings and the irony in selecting them to probe the intelligence of Trump supporters....
You have Dostoyevsky would be very much against any form of socialism. Even thinking the Catholic Church should be criticized because it was too socialistic.

And nothing in Nietzsche's writings (properly understood) should lead to a happy, enlightened mass of people who are interested in eradicating paranoia and racism. I mean... come on.... Nietzsche??
These aren't shining examples to support a view contrary to that of someone who may find themselves more disposed to the views of Trump (over a Hillary or even Gary).

 

[ISTUDI]

If Hillary wins you are right... If trump wins I'm afraid no one knows if it will or won't because he is such an unknown

If he gets elected he will realise he can't do half the shit he says and will build a wall out of spite. That's about it.

It appears he wants to be bros with Russia, maybe just maybe that's not the end of the world and could benefit both parties.

 

[lfd0311]

For real. 1L forces you to read more than you evr thought possible.

Dude, I took a Constitutional Law class at the Community College level and it was unreal. My Wife's Cousin's Husband (Would that make him my Cousin in law?) is a lawyer and I remember going to visit when he was in Law School and he would have to read like 120 pages by morning. It was sick.

 

[lfd0311]

I am wondering how long it would take a good reader to read 30,000 deleted emails.

Just trying to make sense of the first part of the FBI's report with all the redactions was hard enough.

 

[Handsomebwonderfull]

Just trying to make sense of the first part of the FBI's report with all the redactions was hard enough.

Try checking out the lawsuits against trump. Lol now those are funny.

In one of them he hires a painting team, refuses to pay saying they did a bad job and then he tries to hire them again right after.

Hillary has grey area shit, trump, lol trump is just as piece of shit. Seriously check out the lawsuits. He basically hires small groups to do with then refuses to pay them, they sue and he drags it out until they run out of money for the lawsuit or they settle for hardly anything. It's why he keeps using bankruptcy protection, he can't run shit legally so he has to pull this stuff with lawsuits and relies on the government to bail him out.

So basically trump is Monty burns but a bigger jackass I

 

[Handsomebwonderfull]

So there you go. Trump is a shitty business man with no morals or ethics

And you fuckers want to elect him?
Lol weak

 

[Metal_Daze]

If you were going to manipulate someone, wouldn't you think open minded people would be more receptive to cons? Either way I don't think closed minded vs open minded is the factor there. It's probably easiest to con people with less life experience in general, so younger people. It's why state indoctrination historically targets the youth. That is not to say older people can't be conned though, because of course they can be.

I also don't think it's a matter of more reading = more open minds. It can be true in many cases, but as others have said it depends on what your reading. If someone reads the Quran and Hadiths his entire life he will become one way (open minded in some ways, closed in others), if someone reads just communist literature they may become a die hard communist, etc.

To be completely open, is to know nothing. Should I be open to 2+2 = 5 when I am sure that it is untrue? Should I be open to making mistakes I have already made and learned from? I think only a new born baby is completely open. But, I'm sure you mean open minded in a general sense or 'worldly', but I don't think that automatically would place someone towards one candidate or another. It would really depend on why.

Damn! If I knew people like you were posting here, I would have browsed the sub-forum more often!

Your "indoctrination of the Youth" theory is spot on and it makes me reconsider my position.

For me, that's an open mind. You go on about open minds being susceptible to cons: I agree. The most important thing (for me) about an open mind is the willingness to accept you can be wrong and reconsider your position.

You don't need to believe in 2 + 2 = 5 to have an open mind. You just need to be aware that you could be wrong. 2 + 2 = 5 could be proven by advances in mathematical sciences we can't even imagine yet.

Having an open mind, it's as simple as seeing 1 + 1 = 3 as:

Me + my Mate (which I plan to impregnate) = family of 3

It's just a question of perspective. It has no mathematical value whatsoever, it's just a different way to see things. The postulate can be destroyed by a 1st year high school student.

Yet, it opens a wide array of perspectives...

 

[Metal_Daze]

All you say only makes sense under the assumption that Trump supporters are "less open minded", have some sort of "hate" towards strangers and are manipulated.
Which is a conclusion based on your own political views.

Agreed. That's my claim but it's not as "white and black", to use a racial metaphor! I claim that it's much easier to scare a close-minded individual into submission than an open minded individual. The open-minded guy has a greater chance to discover the scheme and try to resist it, that's all.

That doesn't mean "no open minded individual has ever been manipulated" and it doesn't mean "no closed-mind individual has ever accomplished anything."

It's just a matter of degree: the more open your mind, the less focused you are on one single thing. It makes you very versatile but it doesn't help you become and "expert" on a subject.

That's why we see so many experts on ridiculous subjects. These experts are not sham: they're really experts in their field.

But their mind is so closed and hermetic, they would never admit being wrong, change their position or even just reconsider their stance.

Their mind is closed and it most likely can never be opened. Unless they start reading at a young age, diversify their interests and start seeing the World as an endless source of new knowledge.

That's my position and I'll die defending it.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Mein Kampf, duh