13 year old gang-raped in Colorado...

[Kframe]

Women are incredible adept at forgetting sexual encounters ever happened. They evolved that.

Not according to the victim forums I have been reading. The above is rare according to them.

 

[Trotsky]

How is it not Aggravated rape?

I didn't read the facts beyond what was in the Fox News story, but "aggravated" usually requires grave physical injury or threat of death or bodily harm towards compulsion. So had they beaten her up or done it at gun point, it would have been aggravated. This sounds like forcible, but not aggravated.

Again, I didn't further research because this stuff is really disturbing, so if there are additional facts that do constitute what i just said, I'd be wrong.

 

[Trotsky]

Didn't we have a thread on this?

They probably all got sentencing alternative sentences which if they don't do the sexual deviancy eval, follow through with any treatments, or miss meetings they probably have 3 year prison sentences they have to go serve if they fuck up their community custody requirements.

EDIT:

Just tagging guys that might remember if we had another one.

@Trotsky , @Fawlty , @HomerThompson , @LogicalInsanity

I don't recall that, but you're right. As I pointed out earlier, this could likely be a strategic sentencing

 

[HomerThompson]

Honestly Homer, I have never, ever seen you this worked up about something.. This is like a totally different side of you..

 

[Gregolian]

I didn't read the facts beyond what was in the Fox News story, but "aggravated" usually requires grave physical injury or threat of death or bodily harm towards compulsion. So had they beaten her up or done it at gun point, it would have been aggravated. This sounds like forcible, but not aggravated.

Again, I didn't further research because this stuff is really disturbing, so if there are additional facts that do constitute what i just said, I'd be wrong.

Cases like this are the worst sort of things I have to hear at my job.

Some meth addict beating the shit out of a random person to steal $10 to get high?

Anything involving a child victim:

Worst I head was this dude that had basically moved up here from South Central LA had sexually victimized a 12 year old girl and during a plea deal and the sentencing attached to it he blurted out:
"That whore is lying she wanted it"

Know those really nice UniBall gel pens? I fucking snapped with one hand in anger. Judge threw the book at him:
"Know what, this agreed sentence where you'd get 3 years? Your outburst? Say byebye. I'm imposing the max which is 20"

 

[Kframe]

I was not trying to be a dick or anything. it's a serious topic. But in all the time I have encountered you, I can not recall seeing you this pissed off. I mean I get it, its a hell of a bad thing and I completely share your sentiments on wanting to feed them feet first into a wood chipper.

 

[Trotsky]

Um...no. The purveyors of that nonsense leave out pertinent information; prior history being one of the biggest examples.

I'm guessing you're talking about sentencing disparities by race?

If so, there are studies that affirmatively accommodate prior history. It still exists.

Pro tip: if there's an obvious spurious variable that you immediately think of, it's almost certain that professional researchers thought of it as well.

Also...why didn't a twice elected "black" president, his two overtly racist AG's (both black,btw) multiple black congressmen, senators, legislators, sitting judges, etc... make this a huge issue ? Or fix it ? Makes ya wonder, no ?

Uhhhh, they have.

Obama tried to affirmatively address this, such as with the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010. But you can't really solve something so systemic and depending on thousands of judges' individual discretion.

Come on, Mark. Post better posts.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

does anyone have a reason for why the sentencing was so light? was there not enough evidence or something?

 

[HomerThompson]

Didn't we have a thread on this?

They probably all got sentencing alternative sentences which if they don't do the sexual deviancy eval, follow through with any treatments, or miss meetings they probably have 3 year prison sentences they have to go serve if they fuck up their community custody requirements.

EDIT:

Just tagging guys that might remember if we had another one.

@Trotsky , @Fawlty , @HomerThompson , @LogicalInsanity

I think there was, but it didn't generate much traffic.

 

[Trotsky]

Cases like this are the worst sort of things I have to hear at my job.

Some meth addict beating the shit out of a random person to steal $10 to get high?

Anything involving a child victim:

Same.

I could represent murders, drug dealers, crimes of poverty and passion just fine, but sex crimes in general just took way too big a toll on me.

 

[HomerThompson]

I was not trying to be a dick or anything. it's a serious topic. But in all the time I have encountered you, I can not recall seeing you this pissed off. I mean I get it, its a hell of a bad thing and I completely share your sentiments on wanting to feed them feet first into a wood chipper.

Child predation specifically, and rape in general bring out the authoritarian in me. To the gulag with everyone!

 

[Gregolian]

Same.

I could represent murders, drug dealers, crimes of poverty and passion just fine, but sex crimes in general just took way too big a toll on me.

Great friend of mine was a defense attorney. A REALLY good one to the point he wasn't a partner in a firm but was gettin 60% of all the money felony cases paid to the firm.

He tried to go solo, quit after 4 months, taught for a year at a community college then took a job as a prosecutor at a smaller jurisdiction.

I asked him why:
"You were really good at this shit Rick. Why go to work for the state"
"If I heard some piece of shit say 'that whore is lying she wanted it' one more time I'm going to need a defense attorney"

Public Defenders are goddamn saints.

 

[Gregolian]

Child predation specifically, and rape in general bring out the authoritarian in me. To the gulag with everyone!

I know a guy that is now retired that was a civil attorney that was a prosecutor for a very brief time like 30 years ago.

"IMO, if you're a black child predator, you're housed with the Aryans. You're an Aryan? You get housed with the Crips. Let them take care of you"

 

[Trotsky]

Great friend of mine was a defense attorney. A REALLY good one to the point he wasn't a partner in a firm but was gettin 60% of all the money felony cases paid to the firm.

He tried to go solo, quit after 4 months, taught for a year at a community college then took a job as a prosecutor at a smaller jurisdiction.

I asked him why:
"You were really good at this shit Rick. Why go to work for the state"
"If I heard some piece of shit say 'that whore is lying she wanted it' one more time I'm going to need a defense attorney"

Man, being a prosecutor isn't better. If anything it's more selfish because you're lending yourself to reductive moralism and internalizing punishment of mostly non-egregious crimes for personal gain. Prosecutors as a whole are institutionally immoral. Just rampant railroading, evidence suppression, and undermining due process to bump up their stats.

Public Defenders are goddamn saints.

 

[Gregolian]

Man, being a prosecutor isn't better. If anything it's more selfish because you're lending yourself to reductive moralism and internalizing punishment of mostly non-egregious crimes for personal gain. Prosecutors as a whole are institutionally immoral. Just rampant railroading, evidence suppression, and undermining due process to bump up their stats.

Maybe I'm lucky being in a smaller jurisdiction but up here I don't see it that way personally.

I know the turnover rate in some is ridiculously high. One guy was a 101st vet, became a Felony prosecutor... 2 years later he's a civil one now:
"I saw the dancing boys in Afghanistan then I have to look at photos of the rape exam on little kids for work... I was done, let me write warrants up for idiots that haven't paid child support in 4 years"

 

[Trotsky]

Maybe I'm lucky being in a smaller jurisdiction but up here I don't see it that way personally.

I've never worked in a small jurisdiction, but I would imagine that is pretty important. For the big cities, where all the prosecutors are trying to boost their stats to either (i) get reelected and make a "tough on crime" statement, (ii) trying to climb the ranks of the office, or (iii) trying to make their resume more appealing for private employment after cutting their teeth.....it can get pretty bad.

Just look up the "Deadliest Prosecutors" list from I believe The Guardian. It discusses all these prosecutors who regularly suppressed evidence and executed innocent men. Some of them had like 50% of their cases be found to contain misconduct.

I know the turnover rate in some is ridiculously high. One guy was a 101st vet, became a Felony prosecutor... 2 years later he's a civil one now:
"I saw the dancing boys in Afghanistan then I have to look at photos of the rape exam on little kids for work... I was done, let me write warrants up for idiots that haven't paid child support in 4 years"

Yeah, it takes a certain kind of person on both sides. Like the real good defense attorneys will joke about gruesome, heartbreaking stuff, and you kind of judge them for it, but then you realize that either they are coping themselves or that their ability to detach themselves is kind of a valuable and socially important trait for the profession.

 

[Gregolian]

Yeah, it takes a certain kind of person on both sides. Like the real good defense attorneys will joke about gruesome, heartbreaking stuff, and you kind of judge them for it, but then you realize that either they are coping themselves or that their ability to detach themselves is kind of a valuable and socially important trait for the profession.

Two best defense attorneys I know... one is a former semi-pro hockey player that was a DOC guard for a bit and another is a former infantry turned Blackwater type turned attorney.

They're both PDs. Let's say they both get the "problem children" types.

I've have heard the vet say to a guy pleading guilty to rape once who was trying to stare down teh victim while they read their statement:
"You keep doing that and I withdraw right now and you can sink or swim on your own"

 

[Amerikuracana]

Not according to the victim forums I have been reading. The above is rare according to them.

No comment.

 

[Trotsky]

Two best defense attorneys I know... one is a former semi-pro hockey player that was a DOC guard for a bit and another is a former infantry turned Blackwater type turned attorney.

They're both PDs. Let's say they both get the "problem children" types.

I've have heard the vet say to a guy pleading guilty to rape once who was trying to stare down teh victim while they read their statement:
"You keep doing that and I withdraw right now and you can sink or swim on your own"

Yeesh, well good for them for doing what they do. I have more respect for public defenders than probably any profession in the world. Well, fast food workers too, and animal rescue people. But PD's are up there.

One thing that you definitely come to terms with, and this can be imputed to politics on this very message board, is that what you might more easily consider "evil" is really just varying levels of stupidity. The people are too stupid to be good citizens or to truly appreciate the horrid nature of their crimes. Kind of like Republicans/Trump supporters. By and large, they are not evil: they're just stupid.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Women are incredible adept at forgetting sexual encounters ever happened. They evolved that.

Source ?