Opinion “Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism"

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by phoenixikki, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. phoenixikki

    phoenixikki Brown Belt

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    “Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism"

    [​IMG]
    According to Macron. When you think the left can't get dumber they suprise us and hit a new low:

    French President Emmanuel Macron tore into “nationalism” in an apparent jab at President Trump during his Armistice Day remarks in Paris.
    Speaking Sunday at the Arc de Triomphe beside Trump and other world leaders, Macron decried nationalism as “a betrayal of patriotism.”
    “Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism,” Macron said. “Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism. By saying our interests first ... we erase what a nation holds dearest, what gives it life, what gives it grace, and what is essential: its moral values."
    Trump has faced criticism for referring to himself as a nationalist, comments that he doubled down on last week during a press conference.

    https://thehill.com/policy/internat...tice-day-remarks-nationalism-is-a-betrayal-of
     
  2. Voodoo_Child906

    Voodoo_Child906 Black Belt

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    Late journalist Sidney J Harris defines the difference rather well:

    “The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does , and the nationalist is proud of his country no matter what it does; the first attitude creates a feeling of responsibility while the second a feeling of blind arrogance that leads to a war .”
     
  3. KBE6EKCTAH_CCP

    KBE6EKCTAH_CCP ^Korean Chef Kevin Lee, NOT Fighter Kevin Lee

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    Meh. Macron is Neo Liberalism's poster boy.

    Not left though.

    He s all for free trade and deregulation.

    He s on the right economically, and wants to neutralise all that may oppose that, hence being on the left socially.

    It s called neo-liberalism.

    Not the left, boys. Get it right.
     
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  4. faustian

    faustian I'M NOT A MONSTER Platinum Member

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    Seems like there's a semantic break where Trump's definition of nationalism is different from the rest of the first world's definition of nationalism
     
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  5. JDragon

    JDragon DOX News Anchor Platinum Member

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    Macron is, without a question, the leader of the free world, in a time where the leader of the United States would rather cuddle with Russia than align with its traditional allies, the British are occupied with internal struggles, and Germany has a lame duck chancellor.

    He's also 100% correct on this issue, and right on the mark pointing this out 100 years after the start of WW1.
     
  6. Seaside

    Seaside Caudillo Double Yellow Card

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    Many countries are nationalist and dont start wars. Basically all countries outside the western world are.

    Also why do you care? The EU and US split is good. And something "patriotic and nationalist europeans" can agree on and leftists and right wingers. The Washington London axis (particularly DC) has for too long interferred and dominated european agenda. The list is so long and it existed under Obama the "stab europe in back and push them to support our foreign policy and then take all the refugees from wars we create!". The Americans finally have a large % of their population opposing world policing and meddling on both left and right and that is good.

    If you read American geostrageists in many books they write about how Washington must meddle and lead the EU militarily and foreign policy. The state department and its allies also push the American version of capitalism against EU regulations. Its not to say good relations cant exist between Washington and Brussels/Strassbourg but they are not your best friends forever and some distance is good. What will either split the EU or not will be the mass immigration and racialism. And my prediction is that it will split by 2030 if europe doesnt promote actual pan europeanism for europeans not other religions and peoples. Hungary, italy, greece, poland and visegrad states wont stay if the agenda is that africans and paki muslims are somehow acceptable replacements of their own people.and yes expext a spanish shift to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  7. Trotsky

    Trotsky Gold Belt

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    Macron is a fucking asshole, but there's nothing wrong with what he said. A patriot takes pride in his country and holds it to the highest ideals. A nationalist is proud of merely having a country and holds fast to that pride no matter whether what his country does is right or wrong.

    Lol, Trump doesn't have a definition for nationalism, or for any other political term he uses haphazardly. He would seem to be implying that a nationalist puts his country's interests before those of other countries', but every head of government does that.
     
  8. rokzilla

    rokzilla Green Belt

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    Watch him switch to patriotism and people will find another way how that’s bad.
     
  9. Cuauhtemoc

    Cuauhtemoc Silver Belt

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    There are many brands and definitions of nationalism. The kind of aggressive nationalism prevalent in the early 20th century in Europe was bad. Not because of some abstract morals but because people would go to war to claim some piece of land and kill each other. Trump is not doing that. Hungary is not doing that either. Turkey is to some extent, they just annexed a portion of Syria, de facto.
     
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  10. snakedafunky

    snakedafunky Red Belt

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    This will all chance under chancellor Merz.
    Lol, there is a certain amount of justice that from all the guys Merkel has destroyed politically it's going to be Merz taking over.
    I think he has got a good shot as well because of his long-standing conservative views.
    That is unless he gets into trouble about his private career.
    The Germans sure don't like rich politicians.
     
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  11. faustian

    faustian I'M NOT A MONSTER Platinum Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  12. tramendous

    tramendous Silver Belt

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    Hes right though. I dont get whats wrong with that.
     
  13. tramendous

    tramendous Silver Belt

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    Russia is doing that too and conservatives seem to be fond of them lately.
     
  14. MikeMcMann

    MikeMcMann Steel Belt

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    <{jackyeah}>
    sounds about right.
     
  15. MiniCraque

    MiniCraque Black Belt

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    Anyone who thinks Macron is "the left" is a retard.
     
  16. Seaside

    Seaside Caudillo Double Yellow Card

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    French should be promoted as the linga franca as Macron and others want. Fook speaking english. French was once the linga franca until the eastern euro states were let in. Heck the judicial system still is.

    I agree. But the Americans tilt isnt bad for europe. And again Trump is more of a open book and blunt instrument. The same agenda largely dominated the Bush and Obama and clinton white houses. Time to get serious about what it means to be an EU 'citizen' and if it should really become a pan european union and if so time to end certain pushes. And yes an army is needed but not to protect against Russia (which wont reasonably ever try to conquor eastern europe again excluding naybe half of ukraine). The army is needed to end the reliance on Americans and to be ready for any potential turkish or iranian or chinese threat.
     
  17. Seaside

    Seaside Caudillo Double Yellow Card

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    Crimea was an understandable annexation following a referendum and historic ties to Russia. Annexation of eastern ukraine is unlikely. What is more likely is following more years of no opportunity many on the fence ukrainians may see that ukrainian ultra nationalism and facists were not good for ukraine and that the EU has abonded them. Ukraine will split in half. Mark my words. I cant see the far west of ukraine that exists on polish and hungarian lands ever wanting to be part of a Russian alliance but at same time those type of ukrainians would ally with the visegrad states and italy in their opposition to outside immigration. Crimea isnt going back and syria well that xountry is being partioned anyways and its probably for the best.
     
  18. toutadixballes

    toutadixballes Playing touch butt in a park

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    Lol at macron being left, shertard.

    He's a former bankster for rotschild.
     
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  19. ocfightfan

    ocfightfan Gold Belt

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    True patriotism is importing medieval barbarians from the third world so you can put them on welfare and give them your women.
     
  20. Liquid Smoke

    Liquid Smoke Great artists steal™

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    LOL lets play games with words rather than debate the substance of the position.

    Sorry but Trump puts America first whether the French like it or not.
     

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