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Opinion “Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism"

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by phoenixikki, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Silver Belt

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    It is a bunch of bullshit semantics, intended to under-mine national sovereignty.

    Most leaders in Europe, pre-2000, proudly proclaimed themselves and their roots as nationalist in origin. It is only after the EU lobby has had its way, that nationalism has come to be associated with ultra far-right ideologies such as Nazism (which was imperialist, not nationalist, in its nature), instead of being given its rightful place in history as the ideology responsible for bringing peace into Europe, by way of sovereign countries, independent of each other, and lacking the imperialist grandeur of a Nazi Germany/Great Britain/France/Austro-Hungaria, etc. That Europe is finally at peace, is the result of nationalism, with all different peoples possessing their own piece of land, which they rule according to their own laws, no longer undermined by someone else's government.

    The point of it, is to turn the "nation" into a bad word, replaced by a supra-national structure such as the EU, which has awoken the previous invasive, imperial sentiments. Flag-waving, knowing one's history, and taking pride in one's nation, and its accomplishments, will be looked down upon (and already is, in EU circles). They do not want any flags other than the EU's to be shown except, at best, in sporting events.

    Patriotism shares the same meaning as nationalism, and in fact, it was the abuse of patriotism that the Nazis talked about, when describing their strategies of rallying the population to war. Sooner or later "patriotism" will also be looked down upon as a word, for now it serves as a transitional word such as "mentally challenged". Eventually we might be talking about "Europeanism" or whatever.

    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    -Hermann Göring
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  2. ultramanhyata

    ultramanhyata Gold Belt

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    MAGAtards consider all billionaire globalists to be on the left. All the alleged "non-globalist" billionaires are on the right.
     
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  3. EradiatedHaggis

    EradiatedHaggis Banned Banned

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    Yawn. More typical leftist bullshit going on here.

    Hate Trump because he "said" something, while being in favor of those that "do" it...

    There is no country on earth that is NOT nationalist. Everyone places themselves first and most PRETEND not to. Those hating on Trump about this are nothing more than head in the sand having cunts that dont like to face reality. The world is getting rich off of America, this is why they are mostly unified in being against Trump demanding fair trade from their shithole countries.

    I am beginning to think it was a massive mistake to have the bretton woods conference. America should have allowed the rest of the world to remain poor and have their occasional world war to keep them weak and let Russia take more of Asia. Becoming the worlds police just to be treated like this? Fuck the world.
     
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  4. Hard To Tell

    Hard To Tell Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Id like to see him give this speech in Israel.
     
  5. phoenixikki

    phoenixikki Black Belt

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    Nah that's just some leftist trying to redefine a word so that it fits to his agenda as usual.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  6. Hard To Tell

    Hard To Tell Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    The vast majority of countries are ethnonationalist for the most part, it's only us white westerners who are told that this is evil.
     
  7. phoenixikki

    phoenixikki Black Belt

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    He certainly doesn't belong to the right. Those who promote open borders in order to destroy national states will never be part of the right.
     
  8. andnowweknow

    andnowweknow The Giant On Whose Shoulders You Stand

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    Macron is correct. Trump may disagree, but only because he doesn't understand the definition of nationalism.
     
  9. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Silver Belt

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    Eventually words like "nation-state" and "national sovereignty" will be defined as having a negative purpose (to an extent they already do).

    Ultimately it is the word "nation" which offends those who wish to offer a supra-national alternative. Macron being EU's boy, has been taught to respond very negatively to the idea of sovereign rule by a people.

    He, along with the rest of his ilk, wish for a return to Europe's aristocratic origins, ruled by an oligarchy of elites who may make use of Europe's people and their resources, at a whim, to play their favorite power games on the global chessboard, against the Russians and the Chinese and the Americans. That is the only game they truly know how to play.

    Governing nations, and providing a good living to the people, is something completely foreign to them, and they have proven to be extremely inadequate at it.

    Macron fashions himself a modern Caesar, for a modern Rome, except with none of the qualities or accomplishments or popularity. A delusional hack, is all he is. He will be gone in a few years and nobody will distinguish him from the rest of the EU's faceless bureaucrats. I'm sure he will have a nice career as a EU commissar somewhere, just like all the other failed domestic "neo-lib" politicians, whose achievements are limited to seizing more tax funds for the EU's pyramid scheme, while running a stagnant economy.
     
  10. andnowweknow

    andnowweknow The Giant On Whose Shoulders You Stand

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    Nationalism, as defined by people who understand the meaning of the word (not alternative definitions you make up), is noted as one of the main causes of World War 1. This understanding requires an understanding of history.

    Trump should just use another term if his "nationalism" does not encompass what I've described above.
     
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  11. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Silver Belt

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    It was a main cause of World War 1, indeed, and a great cause as well. The aristocratic, elitist monarchies and Empires were taken down, and replaced by national, democratic governments, where the people ruled, rather than select blood-lines.

    However, the greatest causes were the imperialist objectives and extensive military alliances formed by these Empires, and their craving to incorporate more land under their rule. That Serbian nationals, among else, rebelled against such imperial rule, one can hardly blame them. To cast blame on nationalists, is ludicrous, when they merely rebelled against repressive regimes, as any sane man would.

    No man should be required to make apologies for being "nationalist" at a time when the alternative was to suck up to a king, the aristocrats or the Pope. Power to the people was a far more noble ideal and worth fighting for. Still is.

    We may look down on a man like Ataturk as a terrible person, by modern standards, but I'm pretty sure most people here would have preferred his "nationalist" rule, to the Ottoman Empire.

    I think we can all agree that Europe's "national" order proved out to be far better than the previous "imperial" order.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  12. Ophydian

    Ophydian Brown Belt

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    People like you are a constant reminder why Trump does so well with high school only educated white males.
     
  13. Fox by the Sea

    Fox by the Sea Lighthouse keeper Platinum Member

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    not that many people in europe care about what macron is yapping
    he's just given a platform and is constantly using it, that's it
    he's got a lower approval rating than fucking LePen, of all people
    he could sing the hallelujah for all i care

    he's just a bladder full of hot air
     
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  14. andnowweknow

    andnowweknow The Giant On Whose Shoulders You Stand

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    I just don't think Trump has this context we seem to share in mind...call me crazy. He is a zero sum individual so maybe he does but just doesn't understand the dangers in the nationalist approach?
     
  15. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Silver Belt

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    I do not see any dangers provided that he sticks to a nationalist platform, which I doubt he will, because the United States is not truly a national structure. It is too compromised, and shares too many interests beyond those of Americans. Those "shared interests" (with the likes of Israel and Saudi Arabia) are the greatest threat to America partaking in another war, again. If they were purely a national construct, such a threat would not exist. America requires nothing beyond what it already possesses.

    Above all, the nationalist wishes to cultivate his own lands, rather than occupying somebody else's. Such an objective is imperialist, in its nature, not nationalist.

    EU, by far, shares more imperialist objectives than any single European nation, at this point in time. They are seriously talking about building an army with which they can match might with the United States, or China, or Russia. The only threat of an impending war, comes from the EU structure itself, rather than any lone European nation.

    They lobbied hard for Europeans to intervene in Libya, among other such examples. And will probably continue to lobby for such campaigns, to enhance its own "global" standing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  16. glenwo2

    glenwo2 Twisted Glen

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. glenwo2

    glenwo2 Twisted Glen

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    Just how many of these(see below) am I going to hand out? lol

    [​IMG]


    Macron doesn't know his left hand from his left ballsac.
     
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  18. glenwo2

    glenwo2 Twisted Glen

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    Oh yeah....THAT would go over well.. <Lmaoo>
     
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  19. Prefect

    Prefect Brown Belt

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    Nationalism is a cancer. Every dictator has used it to come to power.
     
  20. glenwo2

    glenwo2 Twisted Glen

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    Except unlike REAL Cancer, countries have yet to actually....you know.....DIE from it? :eek::eek::eek::eek:

    Get a grip. o_O
     
    phoenixikki likes this.

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