Wrestling/BJJ combination most efficient for MMA?

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Luis22

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Seeing that the UFC today is being dominated by wrestlers.

Isn't the most efficient arts to combine is wrestling and jiu jitsu?

The ability to control where the fight takes place is crucial in a fight and wrestling can give you that. And if you combine that with world class jiu jitsu to dominate when it hits the ground i'm thinking that would make a beast fighter.

Thoughts?
 
You have to be very well rounded. Not just wrestling and bjj you need those plus good stand up and cardio and heart and strength ect.
 
Or Judo as done by Ronda = BJJ with emphazises on takedowns and top game = wrestling with BJJ positional hierarchy.
 
D1wrestla said:
You have to be very well rounded. Not just wrestling and bjj you need those plus good stand up and cardio and heart and strength ect.
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Of course given that the fighter is well rounded in all aspects. I'm just saying the most BJJ guys in mma have lost some efficiency because of the lack of skill to take someone down.

Imagine a guy with GSP's wrestling with Souza's jiu jitsu. That would make a hell of a fighter.
 
As long as the bjj is world class.
 
Dosent have to be wrestling and BJJ but that's the most common. As long as your good at wrestling and submissions. Its the best base by far imo, but you still should learn GnP and stand up.
 
I think that used to be the case but nowadays we see striking making much more of a difference in fights than BJJ since the level of sub defense and grappling defense overall has increased.

I think boxing and wrestling base is the best, bare-bones style for MMA today. It takes more than that to make it to the top but that alone can make you relevant.
 
^ Good post. Boxing and wrestling is a great combo as well and I love that combo as well. I'd like to learn more about the men back in the 18-1900's who trained boxing and wrestling, tough SoBs for sure. Gene Lebell and Jack Johnson are the only ones that I can think of maybe Jack Dempsey?
 
Luis22 said:
Of course given that the fighter is well rounded in all aspects. I'm just saying the most BJJ guys in mma have lost some efficiency because of the lack of skill to take someone down.

Imagine a guy with GSP's wrestling with Souza's jiu jitsu. That would make a hell of a fighter.
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Souza has excellent TDs (he was known for good TDs even on the grappling circuit) and GSP has excellent BJJ. It's just really hard to be world class at both.

The problem for BJJ guys is that most of them don't work on TDs much until they get to MMA because they're not all that important for sport BJJ. The old BTT fighters were an exception to this and it's one reason guys like Mario Sperry and Murilo Bustamante had so much success. But realistically, if you've put all your time into learning ground grappling it's going to be hard to take down D1 wrestlers when you meet them in the cage, and that's usually where top BJJ people start having problems, not on the regional circuit where they're fighting less accomplished wrestlers. At the same time, no one whose spent their whole life wrestling is going to be as good at submission grappling as Jacare. Though personally I think being good at wrestling is more important as the TD is almost always the turning point of any round in which one is scored. You don't need to submit someone if you can beat them up and not get tapped yourself.
 
Uchi Mata said:
The problem for BJJ guys is that most of them don't work on TDs much until they get to MMA because they're not all that important for sport BJJ. The old BTT fighters were an exception to this and it's one reason guys like Mario Sperry and Murilo Bustamante had so much success.
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If you really their fights they didn't take down anyone who was a college wrestler or above, they simply couldn't. Thye did however take down strikers. It's just that back in those days, wrestlers were blindly taking jiu jitsu guys down.
 
Boxing (including MT), wrestling, and BJJ all have the advantage where you can train for a couple years only and become effective enough to use them in a fight. The reason for that is because their moves are mechanically simpler and require less coordination development (compared to say TKD or Judo. You can also input athleticism to make up for technical errors, unlike say Aikido. They also allow you to emphasize a few good techniques to build a game around, rather than build a large repertoire. So for a mixed ruleset like MMA, unless you are already a competitor in other arts, your best bet is to pick up one of the top three.

Thus, though now and then you will get a Ronda or Fedor who can clean house, the base practitioner will always have a mix of the top three (in the USA). The ones who cross over after being top in another art can have an advantage though.

IMO, the problem with the UFC is that they do not try to bring in more cross over matches. It all looks the same now. Pride match ups were much more fun.
 
MMA is composed of standup, takedowns, and fighting on the ground. So yes, wrestling to get good takedowns and BJJ to get a good ground game is a good base. Add kickboxing to that and you're covered. Gotta be able to blend them together obviously for it to work ideally in MMA.
 
Do nothing but guard recovery, open guard, superman punches and spinning Kyokushin kicks. Let the other guy take you down and profit.
 
Crossface9 said:
^ Good post. Boxing and wrestling is a great combo as well and I love that combo as well. I'd like to learn more about the men back in the 18-1900's who trained boxing and wrestling, tough SoBs for sure. Gene Lebell and Jack Johnson are the only ones that I can think of maybe Jack Dempsey?
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Gene Lebell trained some other grappling art besides wrestling as well..

Can't remember what one...
 
Luis22 said:
Seeing that the UFC today is being dominated by wrestlers.

Isn't the most efficient arts to combine is wrestling and jiu jitsu?

The ability to control where the fight takes place is crucial in a fight and wrestling can give you that. And if you combine that with world class jiu jitsu to dominate when it hits the ground i'm thinking that would make a beast fighter.

Thoughts?
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The best option is to go to a good MMA school and learn it all from the beginning at a young age. That's the future. The sport is still a "baby"...it's barely been around for long.
 
Thrawn33 said:
Gene Lebell trained some other grappling art besides wrestling as well..

Can't remember what one...
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Haha, I didn't leave Judo out on purpose. I even said it doesn't have to to be wrestling and BJJ as long as you can wrestle, do TD's and submissions. You can be a great Submission wrestler from Catch, Judo or Sambo. Not just the big boys in the US. I was just thinking of examples of people who trained Boxing and wrestling back in the day. Bu Wrestling I meant non jacketed stlyes.
 
PointyShinyBurn said:
Busta took down Matt Lindland and Dan Henderson...
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Did Busta take Lindland down? As for dan henderson, he really hasn't had great mma wrestling (TD defense wise) he has been taken down by lesser wrestlers/fighters. But if you would want to nit pick, yes BUSTA did take him down. However i stand by my statement, the btt's takedown ability has been greatly exaggerated.
 
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