Would America be a better place is Christianity didn't Exist?

[luckyshot]

While I'm no fan of religion, I'd be lying if I didn't say many Christian organizations run great charities in communities across the nation. Would that type of work continue with the church? Maybe, but can't say for sure.

Yeah, but we wouldn't need most of those charities if Christians stopped voting Republican because we'd actually have a functioning social safety net.

 

[ManCityFC9]

If only Christianity is removed?
No

All religion would have to go at once as opposed to just one.

Most of Western Civilization is at a place in which religion as source of morale compass for MOST issues, is no longer needed.
-I'd like to think a healthier America, with science aiding to control overpopulation and encouraging ambition, would suffice.
--I'd say religion was the original building block for a lot of laws and practices to this day.
---I'd hope a lack of religion puts pride/accountability/investment in one's self as opposed to prayer and hope towards a deity.

 

[luckyshot]

Sometimes I wish all three of the desert religions would just disappear.

And by "sometimes" constantly with every fiber of my being.

If we were all still pagan, we wouldn't have sexual hangups, wouldn't have Puritan work-to-death ethic, and would actually care about the environment.

 

[helltoupee]

Christians don't want your progress.

You don't seem like a very good Christian.

Romans 2:1
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself

 

[Diamond Jim]

Yeah, but we wouldn't need most of those charities if Christians stopped voting Republican because we'd actually have a functioning social safety net.

That's very true.

 

[ripskater]

You don't seem like a very good Christian.

Romans 2:1
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself

I'm not judging, I'm just saying that Christians don't want your progressive "progress."

 

[luckyshot]

I'm not judging, I'm just saying that Christians don't want your progressive "progress."

You don't speak for all Christians.

Not all Christians think Sandy Hook is a hoax, drone strikes are great, and God sent Trump.

You speak for one particular version of Christianity. (And by "particular," I am being very, very, very kind.)

 

[Islam Imamate]

If we were all still pagan, we would have sexual hangups, wouldn't have Puritan work-to-death ethic, and would actually care about the environment.

 

[WiolentOne]

You don't speak for all Christians.

Not all Christians think Sandy Hook is a hoax, drone strikes are great, and God sent Trump.

You speak for one particular version of Christianity. (And by "particular," I am being very, very, very kind.)

Your brand of liberalism is about as rational as ripskaters christianity.

 

[luckyshot]

Your brand of liberalism is about as rational as ripskaters christianity.

What, pray tell, is "my brand of liberalism"?

I think that Trump is an ass puppet, we should have a more socialistic society than we do, and we should try to preserve the environment the best we can.

If that is irrational, well, most folks in the civilized world are irrational (just not most of the folks in Murcia...).

 

[StandAndBang]

Most of the biggest advocates of open borders in Australia are the Christians. And yes I basically mean ACTUAL open borders for people who need refuge. I don't agree but i actually respect them for being actual Jesus like and walking the walk.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Imagine a country without dumb evangelicals voting in equally stupid people like Louie Gohmert and the other religious nut cases in the House Freedom Caucus

Maybe than we can accomplish stuff without these obstructionist idiots ruining progress

This is a pretty decent argument for religion imo.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

did you have to search for this and if so what terms did you use?

or do you keep this bookmarked?

Just search progress.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Sometimes I wish I grew up as a Shintoist

Banzai??

 

[Jim Bob]

You don't seem like a very good Christian.

Romans 2:1
1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself

You just made a judgement! LOL. Funny how you like to take verses out of context though and act like you know what you are talking about.

John 7:24
Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge wisely.

 

[bobgeese]

Western civilization would be nowhere near the heights it has achieved without Christianity.

 

[Fawlty]

I'm saying right now poof it ceases to exist gone. Would the country be safer, more productive and more innovative?

My opinion is no.

Thoughts?

Questions like this can't possibly make any sense. The answers to these questions are contingent upon the not-poof-it's-gone-edness of religion declining.

However, religion is declining in America, and America is becoming safer, more productive, and more innovative. But from what I can tell, those improvements and the decline in religion are parts of the same overall trend, and it's hard to show what is causing what. Generally I believe that a decline in religiosity leads to rationality which in turn leads to a decline in religiosity, but that's not a new observation.

Let's look at abortion (and associated women's health) and gay marriage, which are the two issues that are opposed almost exclusively by religious movements for religious reasons. Gay marriage is pretty much doing fine, while abortion/women's health is under strong religious attack. So the effects are not consistent across issues even while religion is declining. Is abortion another incremental line in the sand? Are the religious pushing in all their chips? Will the next religious uprising be weaker? I'll come back to that.

Other areas where we would expect to see an improvement with the decline of religion are education & scientific literacy, but those improvements take a long time to realize.

My pet God's advocate position is about what to do with our Sundays. As an atheist, without any pretense, I could walk into practically any church in America on any Sunday and pour out the contents of my heart to complete strangers, and receive comfort and advice in return, with no strings attached (provided I pick a new church the next week). What is there to replace that? Unconditional fellowship and surrender are handled well, on average, by our church culture. How much value do those things have though? Am I begging the question? Is there a point of diminishing returns with continued church fellowship? Those are questions I ask, and I don't know the answers to them. Obviously you take the good with the bad.


But back to religiosity and the point about abortion, and specifically the 2016 election. Something really interesting happened. Religious people supported a candidate who they knew was not religious, not moral, not a good example for their children, and all of those sorts of things. So why did they support him? The biggest policy reason is because of his vow to get rid of Roe vs Wade. Why did they pick the least Christian person of the bunch? Maybe they believed that an outsider could actually get it overturned. Or maybe that was just enough of a plus when combined with his snake-oil, preacher-like conman shtick, which religious people (especially older religious people) are susceptible to. It's hard to answer but those things are key.

Even though abortion is still under attack, we've won the battle for science in public school and the battle for gay rights. And the attack on abortion isn't as strong as it could be- conservative SC justices are not necessarily in lock-step with the Christian right, though Gorsuch probably will be. The worst outcome we might reasonably expect is that abortion becomes a lot harder (or illegal) in republican states, but if that happens, that will only be temporary I think.


And what other religious wedge issues are there? Stem cell research- which the political Christians are going to lose, either to common sense or technology. Religious conflict- it's conceivable that we end up in a holy war in America over Muslims, but I don't think that's likely. Hate crimes are happening but they're not endemic anywhere. We're also not under any sort of real threat unless nuclear terrorism becomes a thing.

Overall I'd say both that religion is declining, and that we're becoming better people. Those are obviously linked, but it's hard to call one or the other a cause. We see generally good trends across a range of issues but are at risk of a few setbacks.


I've been studying moral panic and tonight I'm researching early modern Germany and the Lutheran response to witchcraft in Rothenburg (Bavaria). They were a more rational people than many of their neighbors and their relative legal isolation makes them a good case study. They took the reformation seriously and embraced the beginnings of mechanical philosophy (God as watchmaker) which was a big improvement over Catholicism and other sects. They valued evidence and they were more interested in exposing people for believing in witches than were in calling people witches. They even preserved their history better than many others. It's quite clear that they benefited from fewer religious beliefs, and they could be a good lesson to Americans.

 

[Space]

America would be a better place without Islam. The other religions can stay.

 

[Fawlty]

Western civilization would be nowhere near the heights it has achieved without Christianity.

*without a few very intelligent, very brave people transforming Christianity from a brutal middle age shitfest into a feature of secular society.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

The abolition of slavery, the end of Jim Crow, and the suffragism of women were all largely due to Christian agitation.