Wing Chun Sticky Hands and Judo Grip Fighting

In the past martial artist would cross train. Not all of them but alot of the great ones would. They would pick up useful things from others and bring them to their style. Also, when something works well most people pick up on it and use it.
 
I was thinking......hey this thread feels familiar.

Lol @ the wing chun thread being revived...:D
 
Get this wing chun bullshit out of my grappling forum.
 
EE6_TBOIO_MATb said:
- also,on the other hand, it gives u the false illusion that open-hand strikes and finger strikes (for example to the ribs) can be effective. I believe that in 95% of the cases, they re crap, sorry.
For hand striking, only 1 thing is effective, and that s boxing, period.
Try to apply that Wing Chun stuff, and u ll get ur fingers broken.
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While I agree that finger strikes are pretty much useless, and in no way recommend Wing Chun as an effective style, I'd say it's pretty narrow-minded to dismiss open-handed strikes. Palm heel strikes are very powerful, and any boxing strike (jab, cross, hook, uppercut, etc.) can easily be done with the palm heel instead of the knuckles. The only real downside is that you give up maybe 2" of reach, but in return the chance of injuring the knuckles or wrist is greatly reduced, especially in a real-life application without any gloves. A well-delivered palm heel is definitely effective, and can K people TFO just as easily as a clenched fist.
 
before that human weapon show, my post would have been "what the fuck is wing chun?"

but from that video, i have learned that while blind-folded, you make someone throw-up (fast-forward to 5:04)
 
brucew22 said:
me too. He is unbelieveably powerful and fast.
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Francis Fong is a real tough guy. I have never trained with him, but my very first instructor in the martial arts did a few times.

Apparently when he first met Francis Fong, he was kind of skeptical of his style. At the time my instructor was an active professional full contact kickboxer with an undefeated record, so he was pretty confident in his striking ability.

Francis Fong picks up on his skepticism, so he asks my instructor if he'd like to spar. Of course my instructor eagerly accepts because he figured he was going to crush this guy.

Anyway, as you can probably assume from where this story is going, Francis Fong starts blasting him with punches. He ends up chasing my instructor backwards halfway across the mat until he finally knocks him down.

From then on, my instructor listened a lot more carefully to what Francis Fong had to say.
 
WARNING: I am raising this thread from the dead.

If you ignore all the hateful posts this has actually been an interesting discussion. While I was always skeptical of Sticky Hands in the standup (since it's so east to clinch or break away) it looks like it would make sense for grip fighting - both standing and on the ground, where you can't manage distance as easily.

Anyone has any experience to share?
 
It's comforting to see that Sherdog was full of cockheads in 2007 too.
 
A lot of Muay Thai movements at close ranges share a lot of resemblance to Wing Chun trapping as far as I'm concerned, and I think y'all might agree that Muay Thai is a pretty effective art, it's been proven once or twice. There are only so many ways you can move the human body.
 
I had a brief stint with Chen Taijiquan, and am familiar with the concept of Wing Chun's sticky hands. In the context of pure grappling, it can work for negating your opponent's grips or handwork. I can basically just put my palm on top of your hand and track it, and you will have a hard time escaping my palm; if you do, the elbow is waiting, and then I re-establish my palm. It's annoying to get around. The problem is it doesn't really put me in a dominant position. It's like stiff arming with your hips back in Judo. Yea, great. You negated my offense. You also negated your own offense. As soon as you stop sticky hands-ing your opponent to engage your offense, you're just grip fighting again (unless your opponent is garbage and goes hog-wild and over-commits to get a grip, but this isn't going to happen with a purple belt or above level opponent generally). In Taijiquan the goal was just to not lose, so it was effective in that regard; when your game plan is to just sit there for 20 thousand years until your opponent gets frustrated and overcommits so you can try to take advantage, it makes sense. I just don't agree with that gameplan. It's like pulling closed guard and holding it infinitely, hoping your opponent dies of starvation before you do.

A better plan is to not only negate their grip, but to also get your own grip. It's a better, more efficient use of my time to prevent their grips by having a better grip instead. Compare the smothering concept with a 2-on-1 grip. Which would you rather have? Which is going to set up a sub/sweep (or pass) better? Only exception is if you're stalling out the clock to win on points I guess. I'd rather try to win than try not to lose.
 
Sticky hands is just called hand/gripfighting in grappling . Thats why people made fun of this thread.
 
DatCutman said:
A better plan is to not only negate their grip, but to also get your own grip. It's a better, more efficient use of my time to prevent their grips by having a better grip instead. Compare the smothering concept with a 2-on-1 grip. Which would you rather have? Which is going to set up a sub/sweep (or pass) better? Only exception is if you're stalling out the clock to win on points I guess. I'd rather try to win than try not to lose.
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If you are limited to just sleeve, and lapel, how do you negate opponent from grabbing the same grip on you?
 
at a close range like that, i suppose sticky hands (or whatever you want to call it) could help develop awareness so you dodge elbows, i'm thinking of when someone pushes or traps the wrist, then throws elbow over the top, if that makes sense
 
Nice to see there have been some insightful posters over the years.

This is just the tip of the iceburg, but currently it isnt done widely enough where people understand what may be possible.

Against wrestler or judoka contact sensitivity as develooed in chi sau can be used to nullify grips and initiate movement to free you to strike.

Against strikers in close, it can help to disrupt their movements and use contact to make it into a more sensitivity based form of dirty boxing.
It also develops a kind of semi automatic reflex action that will help nullify punches if contact with the arm is made by redirecting the line if energy.

It is also not limited to the hands but the arms, so as someone mentioned it can be trained to help deflect and move with close range muay thai attacks and elbows.

On the ground such as in guard or pretty much any time there is arm contact it can help you to feel your way into a better positional hand control.
With standing grappling it doesnt just help nulify grips but as you get better it can be used to initiate push/pull and establish that opening for a better grip.

Think of it as training an attribute and skill, that is the attribute of contact sensitivity and reflex actions of the arms amd redirecting or controlling force, that potentially has a wide range of applications.
I think through enough grappling experience many people develop a kind of low level 'hand fighting' ability but training something like chi sau, especually if done with wider considerations than just wing chun can take it to another level all together.
 
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