Why has the HW division been so dead for years?

UFC never really built a great HW division, Pride had a decent one, but still shallow compared to most divisions and that might have been a fluke more than a consistently achievable level of talent.

Pride HW was until 2005 "above 90kg". It then changed to above 95kg. I think most of the good Pride HW guys were basically LHW's in current UFC. Except for the freaks like HMC, Bob Sapp etc. most of their HW weren't huge guys. I mean Fedor vs CroCop was a 6 foot guy against a 6 foot 2 guy both slightly over 100 kg. Not really insane HW category.

But thats wrong. The minimum for a NFL player is a little south of 500k. Overeem makes 800k per fight, and fights at least twice a year.

Every is a strech of course, but Overeem is a big name, so for someone not getting in top 10 and not drawing sitting on the bench is a ton more money than fighting in the UFC.
 
Yeah, I think he needs to retire. Especially since he's now talking about memory loss and slurred speech.
He's a warrior (and not to bright to be honest). He has been in so many wars over the years and taken so many shots, he really shouldn't be fighting anymore, especially if he's having symptoms. He's had a tough life, so I hope he hangs up the gloves soon, recovers (as much as he can) and enjoy his retirement.

Sadly I think it might not end too well for Hunt, but I hope I'm wrong.
 
He's a warrior (and not to bright to be honest). He has been in so many wars over the years and taken so many shots, he really shouldn't be fighting anymore, especially if he's having symptoms. He's had a tough life, so I hope he hangs up the gloves soon, recovers (as much as he can) and enjoy his retirement.

Sadly I think it might not end too well for Hunt, but I hope I'm wrong.

I think this fight against Tybura is the last on his contract. He really should retire after this one, win or lose. Watching Overeem knee hunt to death earlier this year was not a good feeling, and I don't like that he's talking about a rematch with Werdum. He has no business fighting against top guys anymore. Hunt has had a good career and will go down well in the sport, there's nothing more he can do.

I really don't like seeing old, obviously declined fighters slogging on. The risk of brain damage becomes greater and greater with age. Hunt is already at fairly considerable risk for CTE, he should quit before he further damages the quality of life of his retirement.

The wish to "go out on the shield", and the refusal to acknowledge snowballing decline is something that plagues these old warriors.

Fedor comes to mind as another old legend that really needs to retire. He's a tiny heavyweight, whose skills seem to have regressed along with the speed which made him great. Yet, he just keeps going, for what reason I can't really tell. He'll lose in increasingly ugly fashion if he tries to fight legit HWs, risking his health, and for what? What more can Fedor possibly prove at his age?

It's really a sad stage in the career of most longtime professional fighters.
 
I think this fight against Tybura is the last on his contract. He really should retire after this one, win or lose. Watching Overeem knee hunt to death earlier this year was not a good feeling, and I don't like that he's talking about a rematch with Werdum. He has no business fighting against top guys anymore. Hunt has had a good career and will go down well in the sport, there's nothing more he can do.

I really don't like seeing old, obviously declined fighters slogging on. The risk of brain damage becomes greater and greater with age. Hunt is already at fairly considerable risk for CTE, he should quit before he further damages the quality of life of his retirement.

The wish to "go out on the shield", and the refusal to acknowledge snowballing decline is something that plagues these old warriors.

Fedor comes to mind as another old legend that really needs to retire. He's a tiny heavyweight, whose skills seem to have regressed along with the speed which made him great. Yet, he just keeps going, for what reason I can't really tell. He'll lose in increasingly ugly fashion if he tries to fight legit HWs, risking his health, and for what? What more can Fedor possibly prove at his age?

It's really a sad stage in the career of most longtime professional fighters.
I agree with you completely. Fedor should have stayed retired back after the Rizzo fight, and he definitely should not be fighting anymore now. He's a shell of his former self, but as you say we see this with a lot of old legends.

I suspect that in a few years when we really start to see how badly messed up some of the guys who fought 10 years ago are, then maybe things will change a little. It seems that there is even a trend in boxing now, being more aware of CTE and PCS. The more knowledge we get, even if we already know how bad it is deep down, the less we can ignore it. Ward just retired from boxing and I remember him talking about concussions a few years ago. That's the way to go out, on top.

As someone who has had two concussion from combat sports, and is dealing with heavy PCS symptoms that wont go away, I have gained a completely different perspective on brain health.
 
I agree with you completely. Fedor should have stayed retired back after the Rizzo fight, and he definitely should not be fighting anymore now. He's a shell of his former self, but as you say we see this with a lot of old legends.

I suspect that in a few years when we really start to see how badly messed up some of the guys who fought 10 years ago are, then maybe things will change a little. It seems that there is even a trend in boxing now, being more aware of CTE and PCS. The more knowledge we get, even if we already know how bad it is deep down, the less we can ignore it. Ward just retired from boxing and I remember him talking about concussions a few years ago. That's the way to go out, on top.

As someone who has had two concussion from combat sports, and is dealing with heavy PCS symptoms that wont go away, I have gained a completely different perspective on brain health.

Really sorry to hear that you're suffering from PCS, scary stuff. You've competed as an amateur, correct?

On the professional level, I think that there needs to be more onus placed on commissions and orgs to protect fighters. It's criminal that athletes with long and gruelling careers are still being sanctioned to pro fights well into their 40s. RJJ fought this year at age 48. Shane Mosley fought last year, and its plain to see in interviews the toll the sport has taken on him.

I hope that you're right about people wisening up in the coming years, but I'm not sure. If Ali didn't drive the point home, I'm not sure what legend can. There needs to be responsibility assumed from the top down to inform athletes and fans about dangers, and to prevent irresponsible matchmaking. Tough to do, since its the ugliest part of combat sports, and not something promoters tend to want to draw attention to. I've spent a decent amount of time around boxing gyms, and its always been a little unnerving how much people seem to try and shake off minor concussions. On the next level, there are the gyms that seem to promote regular wars (that mayweather dog house video comes to mind). I doubt people would take such risks in sparring if there was more information disseminated from the upper echelons of the sport.
 
It seems to me that lots of light-heavyweights could easily be heavyweights if they didn't cut weight. So in a way, 205 and heavyweight are kind of the same category.
 
The easy answer i can think of is steroids.
But it can't be just that..

Also Hunt, werdum, and AO have improved drastically since their Pride days…you know improvements does happen????

Yeah sure, over 40 is when you hit your prime right?
 
There have been many good Heavyweights, but only in Pride has there been an actual elite division.
 
Really sorry to hear that you're suffering from PCS, scary stuff. You've competed as an amateur, correct?

On the professional level, I think that there needs to be more onus placed on commissions and orgs to protect fighters. It's criminal that athletes with long and gruelling careers are still being sanctioned to pro fights well into their 40s. RJJ fought this year at age 48. Shane Mosley fought last year, and its plain to see in interviews the toll the sport has taken on him.

I hope that you're right about people wisening up in the coming years, but I'm not sure. If Ali didn't drive the point home, I'm not sure what legend can. There needs to be responsibility assumed from the top down to inform athletes and fans about dangers, and to prevent irresponsible matchmaking. Tough to do, since its the ugliest part of combat sports, and not something promoters tend to want to draw attention to. I've spent a decent amount of time around boxing gyms, and its always been a little unnerving how much people seem to try and shake off minor concussions. On the next level, there are the gyms that seem to promote regular wars (that mayweather dog house video comes to mind). I doubt people would take such risks in sparring if there was more information disseminated from the upper echelons of the sport.
Very insightful comment. It's "funny" that you should mention the infamous doghouse video because I've been ragging on that for quite some time now. It's the epitome of stupidity.

In boxing gyms many places it's ridiculous how they treat head injuries and sparring sometimes. Part of it is the fighters obviously, who don't want to look weak and think they are invulnerable (don't we all as teens and young men). I can relate to that, and obviously you want them to not break and keep fighting, but the ultimately it's the coaches responsibility to reel that shit in. The guys who gets perma damaged are swept under the rug, or they simply just ignore or refuse to examine how it got to that point. The worst are the guys in the gym who are basicly punching bags and never amount to anything or get anywhere, besides CTE and a rough life later on. The guys you never hear about.

It sounds paradoxical enjoying fighting as much as some of us do, yet at the same time being very aware of brain damage and not wanting anyone to experience PCS and the like. It is afterall the nature of the game to hurt the opponent with shots to the head. Ultimately, there will be damage and that's how it is. At the same time, people in the fight world has to wise up and at least call a spade a spade. Man up and confront the problem instead of acting like it doesn't exist.

Control the sparring, teach the kids proper defense and positioning, build them up slowly, educate on brain health, have PROPER concussion protocols in place, don't let guys hurt others needlessly in the gym, especially those not at their level. This should be the minimum.

Oh and yeah, I fought a few times as an amateur in both boxing and MT, and I have trained MMA for some years now as well with good fighters. And yes, PCS sucks, but at the same time there are people out there who have it a lot worse than me. Maybe it has saved me from worse damage down the road, as my style was not very defensively sound.

I still have a few good years left athletically, I'm 29, so now I just practice and try to hone my craft. No sparring, which is a shame because I've gotten so much better, but it is what it is.
 
Because big athletic guys can make way more money elsewhere ?
Especially because there are so few high profile names and big stars present in UFC HW. The only big star through the years was Brock.

My conclusion is: with the reebook deal, USADA and lack of big money fights the none HW UFC fighters could acheive success and earn more money long term in the sport of mma elsewhere.
 
Could it have something to do with the training required? Especially now. The new generation of MMA fighters are training MMA. Before you saw a guy with one strong base pick up a bit of other skills and do wel. Fans can see one dimensional fighters and are no longer impressed. I know that is true of all divisions but with a smaller pool, the fringe weight classes suffer more. There are fewer 100kg 20 year olds with skills to train against than 70 kg. There's a lot more but anyone who wants to think about this can probably figure it out.

In order to increase longevity and reduce permanent damage, what is the opinion of heavier/ more padded gloves for the bigger fighters?
 
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