Why has the HW division been so dead for years?

[JBJISGOAT]

I know improvements do happen but I don't know how they does happen.

Oh god…grammar police shit posting away….

 

[thehighking]

Heavyweight isn't dead, it doesn't get the appreciation it deserves

 

[TheGZA]

True but unless you're a top 5 HW, you'll get less brain damage and make more money working at a used car dealership.

 

[g*r*b]

Miocic wants to make champion money and never fights.

He fought three times last year, and the last time he fought was 4 months ago. Sheesh.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

There is such a thing as mileage.

It's pretty incredible how a few of the old guard has managed to hang on, but it's pretty clear that physically they have fallen off hard. They get away with it because of experience and how thin the division is. Young Mirko, Fedor, Big Nog, Sergei, Lil Nog, Barnett so on were sharks. Even JDS was much better 6 years ago. Cain probably too. Hunt is basicly the same fighter he was 10 years ago, with worse striking, more injuries, much slower, better TDD and a worse chin. Ubereem would also destroy current Reem. Werdum is probably the only one who might do well against his younger self, but he is starting to fall apart too.

Fucking moronic again!

Go take a intro class. People get better. If you weren't so stupid you could see that. Hunt is MUCH better MMA fighter. Enough with this lame attempt at trying to prove your favorite fighters 500 years ago were some gods. It's not true and never was!

 

[Sano]

Fucking moronic again!

Go take a intro class. People get better. If you weren't so stupid you could see that. Hunt is MUCH better MMA fighter. Enough with this lame attempt at trying to prove your favorite fighters 500 years ago were some gods. It's not true and never was!

I know you are new to this whole thing, but try using your reason.

At some point a fighter reach their peak and it's downhill from there. No amount of training can make up for it. Torn ligaments, broken bones, brain damage, slowed reaction time, less speed, chin goes, pain, injuries. It's a natural part of getting older, especially as a fighter.

Ask yourself this, was Tyson a better fighter at 30, than at 22? Was Fedor? Was Ali better at the end of his career than at early stages? Is Anderson as good now as he was 10 years ago? Is Big Nog? Sergei? RJJ ? So forth. If you come to the conclusion that no, they passed their peak and were/are not as lethal in the cage or ring as they used to be, then ask yourself why that is.

 

[Bubblun]

Anyone that believe Mark Hunt is an improved fighter at the age of 43 doesn't understand how the human body works.

Ask Hunt to attempt this today and he'd break his hip.

Yes, he is far better now, he was losing to guys 100 pounds lighter than him, and his record is a reflection of that, no conspiracy theory, his record says it all.
He wasn't a good fighter, missing a spinning kick by a mile is not proof of athleticism.

Mark Hunt went to being taken down like 10 times by a 75 pounds lighter Wanderlei Silva, to making a juiced to the grills NCAA champion Brock Lesnar work to get the takedown and hold him, one time he even managed to stand up.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

I know you are new to this whole thing, but try using your reason.

At some point a fighter reach their peak and it's downhill from there. No amount of training can make up for it. Torn ligaments, broken bones, brain damage, slowed reaction time, less speed, chin goes, pain, injuries. It's a natural part of getting older, especially as a fighter.

Ask yourself this, was Tyson a better fighter at 30, than at 22? Was Fedor? Was Ali better at the end of his career than at early stages? Is Anderson as good now as he was 10 years ago? Is Big Nog? Sergei? RJJ ? So forth. If you come to the conclusion that no, they passed their peak and were/are not as lethal in the cage or ring as they used to be, then ask yourself why that is.

Because the other person was better. Deal with it.

 

[Bubblun]

Because the other person was better. Deal with it.

That is something i can't stand.
As soon a big name beloved fighter loses he is out of his prime, and that loss doesn't matter or has no value.
That's a lack of respect toward to the other guy that trained his ass off and actually beat him.


Respect to Dominick Cruz that on the Rogan podcast said he made his career beating guys that always had excuses for their losses, and he can't stand excuses and if there is a guy that had a injury plagued career that's Cruz.

 

[Sano]

Because the other person was better. Deal with it.

On the night yes, obviously. That wasn't the question I asked. Human beings get older and as such they stop performing at their best, especially in a sport as unforgiving as combat. It's basic stuff.

How old are you?

 

[Phi-]

On the night yes, obviously. That wasn't the question I asked. Human beings get older and as such they stop performing at their best, especially in a sport as unforgiving as combat. It's basic stuff.

So when Werdum submitted Fedor in Round 1 it was because Fedor was old and out of his prime or because Werdum tricked him into jumping his guard and slapped a triangle onto your presumed GOAT?

 

[Sano]

So when Werdum submitted Fedor in Round 1 it was because Fedor was old and out of his prime or because Werdum tricked him into jumping his guard and slapped a triangle onto your presumed GOAT?

First of all you are assuming a lot of shit. Fedor is my all time favourite, but I can't say that he's necessarily the greatest fighter ever. He's up there, but that's just my opinion. He is however the one I respect the most, and the one who got me started on MMA.

Fedor made a mistake in that fight, got caught against the cage and Werdum capitalised. Fedor always took chances and somehow managed to pull through, but he's been paying hard for the holes in his game for a while now.

If you are asking me at which point I think he was best, I'd say it was around 2004-2007. He peaked very early and as soon as he stopped using his Judo, grappling and transitions he basicly became a one dimensional brawler. His style always relied on reflexes, reaction time and speed besides his Judo/Sambo and those are the first qualities to go.

 

[xxax]

I think its because the pool of people who fit the HW criteria is quite small to begin with, i mean how many people do you have that are fit, athletic and have 250 pounds and the size to go with it? There are way better options for them, like the NBA, NFL, etc. I mean a guy that's 6 foot 8 and has 250 pounds can play basketball in Europe and make some money, without getting his face bashed it.
Not to mention that a ton of people at LWH could make HW, Jon Jones, DC (who was great at HW), Gustaffson, Johnson etc. are all potential HW's but stick to LWH. If you look at pride HW's in their prime, half of them could make LHW. Fedor was a small HW to begin with, Mirko in his prime could make 205 no problem, Big Nog etc.

The HW division is in a sad state though, especially with JDS declining in his carrer and popping for PEDS and Cain still sidelined. I mean c'mon Mark Hunt is supposedly no. 5 in the world. Don't get me wrong, i absolutely adore Mark Hunt, but for a 43 year old guy that's like 13-11 to be top 5 in the world...Alistar Overeem, Werdum.... guys i watched when i started watching MMA are still top 5. The division is really shallow and sadly stagnant.

 

[Phi-]

Fedor made a mistake in that fight, got caught against the cage and Werdum capitalised. Fedor always took chances and somehow managed to pull through, but he's been paying hard for the holes in his game for a while now.

So you don't give credit to Werdum because he lured Fedor into a trap and executed a legit Jiu Jitsu technique, but it was just a mistake from Fedor?

That's pretty disrespectful towards Fabricio. Real asshole move from you, to be honest.

If you are asking me at which point I think he was best, I'd say it was around 2004-2007. He peaked very early and as soon as he stopped using his Judo, grappling and transitions he basicly became a one dimensional brawler. His style always relied on reflexes, reaction time and speed besides his Judo/Sambo and those are the first qualities to go.

What a cheap and idiotic excuse for losing.

Let me ask you this: is there any possibility to convince you of the obvious truth that Fedor is a normal human being that loses just like any other? You don't have to invent some weird narratives to explain his losses.

 

[LilMountain]

UFC never really built a great HW division, Pride had a decent one, but still shallow compared to most divisions and that might have been a fluke more than a consistently achievable level of talent.

 

[Sano]

So you don't give credit to Werdum because he lured Fedor into a trap and executed a legit Jiu Jitsu technique, but it was just a mistake from Fedor?

That's pretty disrespectful towards Fabricio. Real asshole move from you, to be honest.

What a cheap and idiotic excuse for losing.

Let me ask you this: is there any possibility to convince you of the obvious truth that your narrative of prime-Fedor vs non-prime-Fedor is utter bullshit?

Again, you are assuming.

I give Werdum all the credit in the world. He is a master at luring people into his gameplan and using his smarts to win fights (besides his amazing BJJ). Fedors mistake was thinking he could jump into the guard half assed again, after escaping it the first time. Clearly it was Werdums win, no matter how you spin it and to CLARIFY, I think Fedor could have lost that fight at any point in his career.

If you knew anything about physiology you'd know that while strength carries later, explosiveness, reaction time and speed top early to mid twenties in most people. Having a style built on that, especially a reckless one, means you're more likely to not perform as well later in your career unless you change your game up. Fedor never changed or evolved, he regressed.

This is what made Fedor good:


His grappling, his Judo and his GnP is really what made him as a fighter. His strikes were mostly to set up the clinch and then transition. When was the last time he did that? Now he headhunts, looking to end the fight as early as possible. Even before his fight with Arlovski he only had 4 TKOs and one KO, but he had 16 submissions! After that point he has 0 submissions and 5 TKO/KO victories. He lost his grappling entirely.

These guys are not robots. They get older, they get injured, they lose a step or two.

 

[Sapp]

Anyone that believe Mark Hunt is an improved fighter at the age of 43 doesn't understand how the human body works.

Ask Hunt to attempt this today and he'd break his hip.

Did you see the shitshow that was Hunt's early MMA career? He unequivocally improved over time. Obviously he's over the hill now, though.

 

[Sapp]

An offensive lineman sitting on the bench in the NFL makes more money than every UFC HW on the roster.

But thats wrong. The minimum for a NFL player is a little south of 500k. Overeem makes 800k per fight, and fights at least twice a year.

 

[Sano]

Did you see the shitshow that was Hunt's early MMA career? He unequivocally improved over time. Obviously he's over the hill now, though.

He definitely improved a lot since then, but he has been going downhill for a few years now.

 

[Sapp]

He definitely improved a lot since then, but he has been going downhill for a few years now.

Yeah, I think he needs to retire. Especially since he's now talking about memory loss and slurred speech.