Why do MMA fans struggle to accept reality?

[GrewUpSlapBoxin]

I dunno, are you dense? Tyron could kick Condit's left leg 100 times and never tear his right knee, its the very definition of a freak accident.

You didnt answer my question. If that kick didnt happen, and they were just stalemating there, would condit have flailed to the ground like a fish on his own?

Or was it Tyrons kick that enduced the injury?

No one claimed he kicked his right leg , dimwit.

Its very obvious that his reaction to the left leg , Leg kick injured his right knee. He didnt just twirl like a ballerina for fun.

 

[Ragnus]

MMA is such a game of inches .. that in some cases the fight literally could have went the other way easily. Obviously that doesn't change reality and the outcome is the outcome. Obviously fans are going to
Discuss the fights and all the possible scenarios.

i completely promote the discussion of possible scenarios but I just want to make sure they accept the actual scenario to begin the discussion.

 

[in the liver]

I've been seeing it far to often and have been replying to numerous comments on this forum on the matter and have decided to create my own discussion about it. I am going to paraphrase but i constantly see comments such as "if anderson didn't show boat he would have beat wiedman", "if anderson had strong legs he would have beat wiedman the 2nd time", "if the first round in tj vs cody was 10seconds longer cody would have won", "if there were no rounds nate would have beat conor", "jones would have been good regardless of steroids" and "if conor didn't land that one punch against aldo he would have won". I can think of like a billion more examples. The reality is anderson did show boat, anderson does have weak legs, there wasnt 10second more in the round in tj vs cody, there are rounds and steroids are against the rules and give massive advantages. Accept reality folks there is objectivity in the UFC, if you beat a fighter in the UFC you are a better UFC fighter, you may not have a better resume, you may not be the favorite in the next fight but you are the better fighter by UFC standards.

TLDR; It doesn't matter how you lose whether its by injury, it doesn't matter if you were close to winning the fight, it doesn't matter if you looked better in the last round, it matters if you win. A fighter needs to be evaluated on actual accomplishments not theoretical possibilities.

PS: a few more examples is tyron woodley's win over condit being debated when he clearly won the fight by leg kick and michael chandlers loss to Brent Primus wasn't a legit loss when it was, he was injured and it was decided that he couldn't continue

the what ifs are what make the sport interesting, its chaotic nature is what makes it compelling. dont forget that factors like referee interference with the fight, where he stops the fight in an important position to cut off some hand wrap or to give a fighter his gumshield, or when the ref does a premature stoppage, or even when an asshat like conor jumps into a bellator cage before a fight has been called, all add to the chaos and complexity. often wins arent fair, often the scoring system allows a fighter to win when he "lost the fight". there is much to talk about and argue over.

 

[JustBleed69]

Well i disagree i believe your ability to injure a person is what quite literally defines you as a better fighter, concussions occur after being ko'd just as injuries occur after being inflicted with a force, reacting to a non direct force or reacting to a potential force (feint).

Normally injuries don't come from your opponent, but come from a mistake made by the fighter him/herself.

You would have a solid point in a fight like Whittaker vs Romero, where Romero intentionally through that kick to Whittakers knee and injured him in the process, but in a fight like Silva/Weidman 2 where there is a freak accident I don't neccessarily find that impressive or think that makes 1 fighter better.
Luckily for Weidman, he had already beaten him prior through and was winning the fight up to that moment.

 

[MusterX]

You didnt answer my question. If that kick didnt happen, and they were just stalemating there, would condit have flailed to the ground like a fish on his own?

Or was it Tyrons kick that enduced the injury?

They were in a fight, injuries happen during athletic endeavors so I'm not sure what you are trying to say. With Anderson and Weidman their bodies were in direct contact at the point of the injury, this wasn't the case with Woodley and Condit. It was a freak accident. I'll let you have the last word on it.

 

[Ragnus]

Normally injuries don't come from your opponent, but come from a mistake made by the fighter him/herself.

You would have a solid point in a fight like Whittaker vs Romero, where Romero intentionally through that kick to Whittakers knee and injured him in the process, but in a fight like Silva/Weidman 2 where there is a freak accident I don't neccessarily find that impressive or think that makes 1 fighter better.
Luckily for Weidman, he had already beaten him prior through and was winning the fight up to that moment.

this is a better argument but i still disagree, these mistakes are being made directly by the fighter him/herself because they are in a fight and are being put in pressure situations by the opponent, the feints and pressure is creating an extremely high anxiety inducing situation where they are likely to over react and cause injury, credit must always be given to the opponent.

 

[IamStryker]

I dunno, are you dense? Tyron could kick Condit's left leg 100 times and never tear his right knee, its the very definition of a freak accident.

Lots of different injuries can happen when you are fighting and since you are fighting I doubt I will see them as being that unusual as to say it's a freak accident. Now a guy getting hit in the head by a duck while riding a roller coaster, THAT is a freak accident.

 

[JustBleed69]

this is a better argument but i still disagree, these mistakes are being made directly by the fighter him/herself because they are in a fight and are being put in pressure situations by the opponent, the feints and pressure is creating an extremely high anxiety inducing situation where they are likely to over react and cause injury, credit must always be given to the opponent.

I just disagree. I see where you're coming from, but I've wrestled for 10 years and done BJJ for 4 now.
Accidents just happen sometimes and they have very little to do with what your opponent was doing most of the time.

 

[Ragnus]

the what ifs are what make the sport interesting, its chaotic nature is what makes it compelling. dont forget that factors like referee interference with the fight, where he stops the fight in an important position to cut off some hand wrap or to give a fighter his gumshield, or when the ref does a premature stoppage, or even when an asshat like conor jumps into a bellator cage before a fight has been called, all add to the chaos and complexity. often wins arent fair, often the scoring system allows a fighter to win when he "lost the fight". there is much to talk about and argue over.

I completely advocate discussion on hypothetical scenarios we just need to first begin by agreeing on what happened in reality. Once we agree on reality we can try dissect possible scenarios and hypothetical situations which could have occurred in the fight

 

[Ragnus]

I just disagree. I see where you're coming from, but I've wrestled for 10 years and done BJJ for 4 now.
Accidents just happen sometimes and they have very little to do with what your opponent was doing most of the time.

thats all good lad we will agree to disagree, were basically just disagreeing on semantics, no biggy.

 

[IamStryker]

LOL, ok bud.

Honestly dude you don't know anything about checking a kick if you think it's a good idea to block with your knee cap. Watch the replay, Weidman is using the thickest part of his shin bone. Not his knee cap.

 

[GrewUpSlapBoxin]

They were in a fight, injuries happen during athletic endeavors so I'm not sure what you are trying to say. With Anderson and Weidman their bodies were in direct contact at the point of the injury, this wasn't the case with Woodley and Condit. It was a freak accident. I'll let you have the last word on it.

Lmao, first of all, i was never part of the whole anderson wiedman discussion.
So bringing that fight up to deflect is pointless.

No one said injuries dont happen in MMA , no one claimed Tyron kicked his right knee, but your dense brain still fails to see reality.

Your explination of "no direct body contact" is ZERO logic, all shertard.

You still havent answered my question.

Was Condits reaction to Tyrons left legkick the reason he flailed and twisted his knee? Or Did casper the friendly ghost come in and kick his right leg out?

 

[MusterX]

Honestly dude you don't know anything about checking a kick if you think it's a good idea to block with your knee cap. Watch the replay, Weidman is using the thickest part of his shin bone. Not his knee cap.

I gave you the evidence, you disregarded it. They would never teach you to check a kick like that in a McDojo. At the highest level though, yea, the knee cap can take a tremendous amount of punishment and not break. Longo and Weidman did not accidentally say knee when they didn't mean knee, repeatedly calling the move "The Destruction."

 

[Ragnus]

this needs to be also mentioned that the fact even the scoring criteria fight acknowledges non-physical fight tactics such as 'octagon control' the people writing rules seem to understand that non-physical actions influence a fight. to be fair they rarely implement octagon control as a criteria but it still exists.

 

[bigmacbub]

dude there are no such things as freak accidents, how many punches to the face has aldo taken in his career? alot and he never got ko'd in 13seconds.... I don't give a fuck if they fought 1000 times and only 1 was a win by a leg kick, that 1 was still a win by a leg kick! the delusion is incredible!

How many fights have been won by someone kicking then breaking their leg? How many fighters have won by getting kicked in their left leg tearing their right ACL? Freak accident do happen you're delusional.

 

[bigmacbub]

This is what I disagree with. People taking away all credit from someone legitimately winning the fight. Chris and Tyron both did a lot to win those fights not the least of which is they didn't get injured which is shockingly an important part of winning fights. Condit over compensated and Silva threw bad kicks. The people who lost made mistakes and the people who won fought well.

If you read my comment I said I can only award them so much credit Weidman and woodly achieved an injury on their opponent that they weren't intentionally trying to do. They inadvertently injured their opponent. Yes they won and i believe they both win regardless if the injury happened or not.

 

[GrewUpSlapBoxin]

How many fights have been won by someone kicking then breaking their leg? How many fighters have won by getting kicked in their left leg tearing their right ACL? Freak accident do happen you're delusional.

If you go into a fight with a weak right knee, and someone butchers your left knee with leg kicks, which knee is going to have to hold the weight after the left leg kicks ?

Not even mentioning the torqe that is put on your right leg if your left leg is repeatedly being smashed.

And good job @MusterX for giving up.
Maybe even you realized the level of shit that you were claiming.

 

[IamStryker]

I gave you the evidence, you disregarded it. They would never teach you to check a kick like that in a McDojo. At the highest level though, yea, the knee cap can take a tremendous amount of punishment and not break. Longo and Weidman did not accidentally say knee when they didn't mean knee, repeatedly calling the move "The Destruction."

Notice they didn't say knee cap. Maybe that they thought that would be obvious to the audience but they were wrong. Forget Longo and Weidman for a second. Link me to any credible martial arts source that specifically says to use the knee cap when checking a kick. Just one.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1904314-ufc-168-how-chris-weidman-buried-the-legend

This article will in detail describe what I am talking about. Scroll down to the section titled the knee spike.

 

[IamStryker]

How many fights have been won by someone kicking then breaking their leg? How many fighters have won by getting kicked in their left leg tearing their right ACL? Freak accident do happen you're delusional.

Probably more than you think. People were claiming it's incredibly rare when it happened to Silva but it happened again within a month or two after that.

For me a freak accident is a light falling off the ceiling and knocking out the fighter. Not an injury as a result of a fight.

 

[bigmacbub]

If you go into a fight with a weak right knee, and someone butchers your left knee with leg kicks, which knee is going to have to hold the weight after the left leg kicks ?

Not even mentioning the torqe that is put on your right leg if your left leg is repeatedly being smashed.

And good job @MusterX for giving up.
Maybe even you realized the level of shit that you were claiming.

how do you know condit had a weak right knee? Did he state this?