Economy Why a small China-made EV has global auto execs and politicians on edge

but eventually the person who bought their car will have zero payments while your friend is still paying for the rest of his life.
He is paying for the rest of his life but he is always driving new cars.

Also you will be paying for the rest of your life too if you buy a car as maintenance will always be on you and chances are that you will buy several cars over the course of your life unless you plan to drive a car until you die.

I'm not arguing for purchasing new vehicles because that's not smart at all from a financial standpoint but purchasing a reliable older vehicle trumps leasing new vehicles any day of the week. If you're dead set on having a new vehicle every 3 years,
Purchasing a reliable older vehicle that you can service yourself is always going to be cheaper but you will still be driving an older vehicle.

then leasing is great but it's not smart financially because your payments never end.
Definitively is smart financially if the cost you are paying beats the deprecating market value of the asset itself. If i lease an asset for $6,000 dollars a year and said assets has a deprecating value above $6,000 a year, im better off leasing than buying.
 
People love to talk shit about WEF "you will own nothing and be happy" and talk about ownership and all that shit.


But owning a car is a big ass scam, you go to a bank get a loan to adqucire and asset that is always losing value and for what to "own" a car?

In reality the bank owns the car and by the time one finished paying the car it has losts all its value and is a money sink.

So you sell it to a poor SOB to deal with those problems while you use the downpayment to get a bette model and back into debt

In reality car ownership is not true car ownership.


Meanwhile my friend in Spain is always driving new well maintained cars, i asked him if he hit it big over there and he tell me no, they are leased cars.


So he pays a subscription and he gets a car that is maintained and insured by the dealer the terms are tailore to his needs and when the contract is down he can renew it for a newer model, or if his needs change he can change into a new contract with the dealership.

He pays like half of what he would pay for a credit to own a car, sure he doesnt "owns" the car but he saves more than the value of the car would be if he bought it by the time he paid it and that doesnt includes any maintenance.

Its fucking genius if you ask me, its like paying rent but for cars but the difference is of course that cars are some of fastest deprecating assets.

So yeah fuck car ownership people can brag that their money sink is their own meanwhile they spend way more money on cars and drive older shit while my friend changes cars every year or two and always drives new, well maintained cars
I'm not disagreeing with the idea that a subscription service for cars would be pretty cool, but I think this, "In reality the bank owns the car and by the time one finished paying the car it has losts all its value and is a money sink." depends heavily on the kind of car. Our Toyota was paid off a couple of years ago or so and all we've put into it since was the cost of a break job, a wheel bearing, new tires, and new wiper blades every now and then. That's it aside from regular maintenance like oil changes.

If you properly maintain a Toyota it will lest for a decade or more easily. I can't speak for American brands but I suspect they have a lot of room for improvement when it comes to reliability. So just don't buy them.
 
I'm not disagreeing with the idea that a subscription service for cars would be pretty cool, but I think this, "In reality the bank owns the car and by the time one finished paying the car it has losts all its value and is a money sink." depends heavily on the kind of car. Our Toyota was paid off a couple of years ago or so and all we've put into it since was the cost of a break job, a wheel bearing, new tires, and new wiper blades every now and then. That's it aside from regular maintenance like oil changes.

If you properly maintain a Toyota it will lest for a decade or more easily. I can't speak for American brands but I suspect they have a lot of room for improvement when it comes to reliability. So just don't buy them.
- But Toyotas and Volks last forever. You cant say that about a Renaut!:)
 
Tbf, fuck all that.

I want my vehicle as safe as humanly possible. Car wrecks are no fucking joke.

Better factor in good ole USA medical bills into the cost of that equation.

But no one is saying all vehicles need to be death traps. But there should be a cheap, realistic option to stay cool, warm or dry in all seasons for Americans who are otherwise relegated to bicycles and scooters either due to city conditions or economic situations.

Someone who is already forced to ride a bicycle or 50 cc scooter in city traffic is not going to be less safe in an American built chang-li competitor.
 

US plans to impose major new tariffs on EVs, other Chinese green energy imports, AP sources say​


BY FATIMA HUSSEIN, SEUNG MIN KIM, AAMER MADHANI AND DIDI TANG
Updated 8:03 PM BRT, May 10, 2024

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Biden administration plans to impose major new tariffs on electric vehicles, semiconductors, solar equipment and medical supplies imported from China, according to a U.S. official and another person familiar with the plan.

Tariffs on electric vehicles, in particular, could quadruple — from the existing 25% to 100%. The plan was described by the people on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to provide details ahead of a formal announcement.

The tariffs, expected to be announced Tuesday, come as officials across the Democratic administration have expressed frustration over China’s manufacturing “overcapacity” of EVs and other products that they say pose a threat to U.S. jobs and national security.

Industrialized nations including the United States and its European allies fear a wave of low-priced Chinese exports will overwhelm domestic manufacturing. On the U.S. side, there is particular concern that China’s green energy products will undermine massive climate-friendly investments made through the Democrats’ Inflation Reduction Act that President Joe Biden signed into law in August 2022.

The additional tariffs also carry some political heft going into the November presidential election. Both Biden and his presumptive Republican challenger, former President Donald Trump, have told voters that they’ll be tough on China, the world’s second largest economy after the United States and an emerging geopolitical rival.

Biden has defined his policy as “competition with China, not conflict.” He has embraced an industrial strategy that has used government financial support to pull in private investment in new factories and advanced technology, while limiting the selling of computer chips and other equipment to China.

Trump has floated the idea of levying massive tariffs against China in order to reduce the U.S. trade deficit with that country. He has repeatedly claimed that Biden’s support for EVs would ultimately cause American factory jobs to go to China.

Tuesday’s announcement is expected to keep in place some tariffs that were imposed during Trump’s administration, covering about $360 billion in Chinese goods. The new tax on imports would add products such as Chinese syringes and solar equipment.

There is the risk that tariffs could lead to a broader trade conflict between the two countries as they respond to each other’s moves. China is seeking to create a technological edge and move up the economic chain.

There are some indications that China is cooling its production of lithium-ion batteries used in EVs, cell phones and other consumer electronics at a time when it is facing increasing criticism from the West.

On Wednesday, China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology issued a draft rule aimed at “strengthening the management of the lithium-ion battery industry and promoting the sector’s high-quality growth.”

The draft, which was posted on the ministry’s website for public input, says companies should be striving for better technological innovation, higher quality and lower costs, rather than expanding existing capacity.

Lithium battery plants built in restricted farmlands or industrial zones should be shut down, the draft says.

U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai is conducting a review of the Trump-era tariffs, and Republican lawmakers including House Ways and Means Committee Chair Jason Smith and Trade Subcommittee Chair Adrian Smith are urging a “swift conclusion” to the probe.

“Continued inaction on the four year review poses serious risks for U.S. farmers, manufacturers, innovators, small businesses and workers,” they wrote in a letter to Tai this week.

Meanwhile, Ohio Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown said in a tweet on Friday that “Tariffs are not enough. We need to ban Chinese EVs from the US. Period.”

The Biden administration has also said it will investigate Chinese-made “smart cars” that can gather sensitive information about Americans driving them. The Commerce Department in February issued a notice of a proposed rulemaking that launches an investigation into national security risks posed by “connected vehicles” from China and other countries considered hostile to the United States.

There currently are very few EVs from China in the U.S., but officials worry that low-priced models could soon start flooding the U.S. market, even with a 25% tariff.

A car model launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD sells for around $12,000 in China. The car’s craftsmanship rivals U.S.-made EVs that cost three or four times as much — and is stoking fear in the U.S. industry.

The Alliance for American Manufacturing — an alliance of businesses and the U.S. Steelworkers union — released a report in February that says the introduction of inexpensive Chinese autos to the American market “could end up being an extinction-level event for the U.S. auto sector.” The U.S. auto sector accounts for 3% of America’s GDP, according to the report.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, who traveled to Guangzhou and Beijing in early April, cited the manufacturing of electric vehicles and their batteries as well as solar energy equipment — sectors that the U.S. administration is trying to promote domestically — as areas where Chinese government subsidies have driven rapid expansion of production.

“China is now simply too large for the rest of the world to absorb this enormous capacity. Actions taken by the PRC today can shift world prices,” she said during a speech delivered in Beijing in April, using the acronym for China’s official name, the People’s Republic of China.

“And when the global market is flooded by artificially cheap Chinese products, the viability of American and other foreign firms is put into question.”

The plan for new tariffs was reported earlier by Bloomberg News and The Wall Street Journal.

https://apnews.com/article/china-electric-vehicles-imports-3d1f4ef984b18bb6e86274e65bcfdf2e
 
My problem with the EVs is the battery replacement and cost of the battery.
Justin Trudeau and the Canadian liberal party is idiotic wanting to ban gas automobiles and hope that everyone switches to EV.

How about just banning cars and living in a beauftiful highwayless world again?
 
But no one is saying all vehicles need to be death traps. But there should be a cheap, realistic option to stay cool, warm or dry in all seasons for Americans who are otherwise relegated to bicycles and scooters either due to city conditions or economic situations.

Someone who is already forced to ride a bicycle or 50 cc scooter in city traffic is not going to be less safe in an American built chang-li competitor.

The majority of households here in Oz now own multiple cars. We went from 22% of households having more than one car in 1960 to 59% in 2020.

The idea of every adult owning a 4WD/SUV as a personal shopping trolley and personal transport is ridiculous, yet sadly that seems to be the direction we are heading. Cheaper, nastier yank tanks would only accelerate that.

Personally I've been two wheels only for decades, and it's clear from any daily commute that personal transport decisions are overwhelmingly a matter of "want" and not a matter of "need" or practicality.
 
Michael Wayland@MIKEWAYLAND

  • The China-built BYD Seagull, a small all-electric hatchback, starts at just 69,800 yuan (or less than $10,000), and reportedly banks a profit for the increasingly influential Chinese automaker.
  • There’s fear among global automakers that BYD and other Chinese rivals could flood their markets, undercutting domestic production and vehicle prices.
  • “Ultimately the Chinese will come to the U.S.,” said Marin Gjaja, chief operating officer for Ford’s EV unit, during a recent interview with CNBC.
107319716-1697685588522-gettyimages-1484159906-vcg111433157235.jpeg

A BYD Seagull small electric car is on display during the 20th Shanghai International Automobile Industry Exhibition at the National Exhibition and Convention Center (Shanghai)
Vcg | Visual China Group | Getty Images


LIVONIA, Mich. – A small electric vehicle is having a big impact on the global automotive industry.

It’s not the EV itself that’s making waves but its price — and its potential to disrupt domestic auto industries around the world.

The China-built BYD Seagull, a small all-electric hatchback, starts at just 69,800 yuan (or less than $10,000), and reportedly banks a profit for the increasingly influential Chinese automaker.

That latter point — EV profits where U.S. automakers have mostly failed to turn any — combined with the expansion of Chinese automakers into Europe, Latin America and elsewhere has automotive executives and politicians, from Detroit and Texas to Germany and Japan, on edge.

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The Seagull could be a “clarion call for the rest of the auto industry,” said Terry Woychowski, a former General Motors executive who now serves as president of automotive at engineering consulting firm Caresoft Global. “It’s a significant event.”

Though the Seagull isn’t yet sold on U.S. soil, BYD is expanding its vehicles globally, and some believe it’s only a matter of time before more China-made vehicles arrive in the U.S.

There’s fear among global automakers that Chinese rivals like the Warren Buffett-backed BYD could flood their markets, undercutting domestic production and vehicle prices to the detriment of their own auto industries.

“The introduction of cheap Chinese autos — which are so inexpensive because they are backed with the power and funding of the Chinese government — to the American market could end up being an extinction-level event for the U.S. auto sector,” the Alliance for American Manufacturing, a U.S. manufacturing advocacy group, said in a report last month.

BYD sold 1.57 million battery EVs last year, up from just 130,970 all-electric vehicles in 2020. That sales growth was enough to surpass Tesla to become the world’s largest producer of electric vehicles in late 2023.
The rise of BYD and other Chinese automakers led Tesla CEO Elon Musk in January to warn that Chinese automakers will “demolish” global rivals without trade barriers.

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Bernstein reports BYD’s growth, including sales of non-EVs, has come by shipping more vehicles outside China: Overseas markets accounted for about 10% of BYD’s more than 3 million sales last year, doubling that share from the beginning of the year.
BYD did not respond for a request for comment.

How the Seagull stacks up​

Driving the Seagull is no different than driving the Chevrolet Bolt, Nissan Leaf or BMW i3. It accelerates quickly. It’s quiet. It has nice-looking screens and a mix of plastic and soft touch points, including sporty and comfortable seats.
The Seagull, also known as the BYD Dolphin Mini in Latin America, is slightly smaller than GM’s now-discontinued Chevrolet Bolt EV.

Its reported range of up to roughly 190 miles on a single charge (or 250 miles for certain models), is below that of many EVs on sale today in the U.S. but in line with many first-generation all-electric vehicles. The vehicle’s top speed of about 80 mph and just 74 horsepower dwindle in comparison with most EVs currently on sale in the U.S.

But its primary differences come in the construction, batteries and sourcing of parts, according to Caresoft.


The consulting firm tore apart the BYD Seagull piece by piece to benchmark the small EV against vehicles from other startups and traditional automakers. The Livonia, Michigan-based company, with several offices across the globe, has torn down and benchmarked more than 30 China-built EVs from the likes of BYD, Nio, XPENG and others.

Caresoft digitally and physically analyzes every part of a vehicle, from bolts and latches to seats, motors and battery casings. It then determines how its clients – mainly automakers and suppliers – can improve efficiencies and cut costs in their products.

Its initial study of the BYD Seagull found it to be efficiently and simplistically designed, engineered and executed, but with unexpected quality and anticipated reliability.
1280px-Camper_Micro_Machines.jpg

“What they did do is done very well,” Woychowski said. “It’s efficiently done.”

For the price it’s a well-equipped vehicle. (BYD even lowered the starting price of the vehicle by 5% earlier this month, down from a roughly $11,000 price earlier this year.)

Despite the cheap price, the company still makes “some money” on the Seagull or at a minimum breaks even, Caresoft CEO Mathew Vachaparampil said during an automotive conference hosted by the Chicago Federal Reserve in January.

For BYD to sell the Seagull in the U.S., it would have to meet U.S. federal vehicle requirements that would add additional costs to the car. But the EV could likely still arrive on U.S. shores for tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than the current average price of an EV in the U.S., which Cox Automotive reports is more than $52,000.

BYD last month announced it would begin selling the Seagull/Dolphin Mini EV in Mexico for 358,800 pesos (or about $20,990).

BYD has found success in its battery technology; internal sourcing, also known as vertical integration; and production of parts, according to Caresoft. Most notable is BYD’s development of lower-cost battery technologies that are far cheaper to manufacture than lithium-ion batteries commonly used in U.S. EVs.

BYD, which stands for Build Your Dreams, first pioneered its “Blade” battery technologies in smartphones and has since grown into one of China’s most well-known automakers.

Its focus on vehicle efficiencies is reminiscent of U.S. EV leader Tesla, which has likewise been able to drive down the cost of its vehicles over the years.

Traditional automakers are only now attempting to emulate some of Tesla’s processes such as its gigacasting manufacturing process and vertical integration of crucial parts such as motors, batteries and other components. Tesla is also quick to adapt.

The Tesla Model 3, for example, no longer has a floor. Instead, the car’s highly protected battery case takes the place of a traditional vehicle body at the base. That type of change, enacted at Tesla over the last several years, wouldn’t typically take place at a traditional automaker until a full redesign of a vehicle.

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BYD is similarly quick to adapt. The company has quickly rolled out new and updated products. It’s also rapidly established manufacturing, as it has its eyes set on factories in Thailand, Brazil, Indonesia, Hungary, Uzbekistan and, potentially, Mexico.
Add in other advantages such as government support, lower labor costs and rising production capacity, and the company poses a growing threat to global counterparts.

Growing concerns​

BYD’s rise comes at a precarious time for global auto industry dynamics.

While China’s automakers expand, America’s traditional automakers have shrunk in both their domestic market and China.
Their decline in the U.S. has come with the arrival of Japanese automakers such as Toyota Motor, Nissan Motor and Honda Motor, as well as, more recently, South Korean auto giant Hyundai Motor and its Kia unit.

The so-called Big Three U.S. automakers — GM, Ford and Chrysler, now owned by Stellantis — have watched their U.S. market share deteriorate from 75% in 1984 to about 40% in 2023, according to industry data.

Politicians in the U.S., concerned about their local auto industries, have taken aim at Chinese imports and lawmakers in Europe have launched a probe into the rise of China-made EVs.

“We are very concerned about China bigfooting our industry in the United States even as we are building up now this incredible backbone of manufacturing,” Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said March 6 during a discussion panel at an Axios event.

Republican Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida has proposed sharply boosting tariffs on Chinese vehicle imports by $20,000 per vehicle to stop the country “from flooding U.S. auto markets.”

Currently, Chinese-built EVs are subject to a 27.5% tariff when imported into the U.S. That includes a 2.5% tariff that generally applies to imported cars plus an additional 25% tariff introduced by the Trump administration in 2018 on China-made vehicles.

Chinese automakers could still build in Mexico, though, and import vehicles to the U.S. from there through the USMCA, formerly the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA.

However, former President Donald Trump – the front-runner among Republicans in the 2024 presidential race – on Saturday suggested instituting a 100% tariff on cars made in Mexico by Chinese companies, should he be elected to a second term.
lego-car-assembly-line-lead.jpg

“What we’ve seen over time is automotive manufacturers eventually enter all the markets that matter … Ultimately the Chinese will come to the U.S.,” said Marin Gjaja, chief operating officer for Ford’s EV unit, during a recent interview with CNBC.

Gjaja said while Ford can’t control regulations or Chinese expansion, it can “get really, really competitive on the technologies that customers want” and get more efficient to win customers.

To compete with Chinese brands such as BYD, Woychowski contends traditional automakers must learn, unlearn and change quickly.

He said companies such as the Detroit automakers each have a century of procedures, standards and other workflows that they must rethink to better compete against Chinese automakers before vehicles such as the BYD Seagull land on U.S. shores.

“You have to learn. You have to unlearn and you have to do it quickly,” he said. “Because you’ve been doing something for 100 years, doesn’t mean you should keep doing it. It’s no longer appropriate.”

– CNBC’s Evelyn Cheng and Dylan Butts contributed to this report.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/22/byd-seagull-ev-puts-global-auto-execs-politicians-on-edge.html

All of this aside, I can't believe BYD are allowed to sponsor Euro 2024.

What a joke.
 
- As long i still can look at them in a museum, i am ok with that!

And I'm fine with not totally banning cars too I was being partially facetious. The most important thing is getting rid of their infrastructure like highways and concrete islands. The cars themselves are secondary the world being built around them was really the damaging thing. Cars especially old cars have their charm which can't be denied.
 
And I'm fine with not totally banning cars too I was being partially facetious. The most important thing is getting rid of their infrastructure like highways and concrete islands. The cars themselves are secondary the world being built around them was really the damaging thing. Cars especially old cars have their charm which can't be denied.
- Opala diplomata. A work of art.

063782a6239b98.jpg
 
It’s ironic how in America, a car has to pass stringent safety standards, but meanwhile people are riding around on motorcycles, scooters, and e-bikes often without even wearing helmets.
i dont see whats wrong with either of those things.
 

US suggests possibility of penalties if production of Chinese electric vehicles moves to Mexico​


BY JOSH BOAK
Updated 4:35 PM BRT, May 14, 2024


WASHINGTON (AP) — The Biden administration is suggesting the possibility that additional penalties could be put in place if the Chinese makers of electric vehicles try to move their production to Mexico to avoid newly announced import taxes.

President Joe Biden on Tuesday directed the office of the U.S. Trade Representative to impose a total tariff in excess of 102% on Chinese EVs, as well as directing new tariffs on other products including steel, aluminum, computer chips and solar cells.

But Chinese EV company BYD has previously indicated that it was looking at factory sites in Mexico for the Mexican market. That raises the possibility that Chinese companies could use Mexico as a backdoor into the U.S. market.

Asked at the White House news briefing on Tuesday about new tariffs, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said, “Stay tuned.”

Tai said any penalties if China should follow through on factories would require a “separate pathway” from the Section 301 review of the Trade Act of 1974. That four-year review led to the tariffs on $18 billion worth of Chinese imports announced on Tuesday.

Tai said that China using Mexico as a workaround was “something we are talking to our industry, our workers and our partners about.”

The U.S. Trade Representative’s office after Tai’s remarks said that it could take several actions other than tariffs, noting that there are provisions within the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement to address unfair subsidies and efforts to avoid import duties.

https://apnews.com/article/biden-tariffs-ev-china-mexico-tai-809b0e27339d38dcd3834d2cbb14e1d1

- If Israel wife started producing good cars again, americans wond't buy chineses. PLease, dont leyt Boeing start doing cars.
 

Biden hits Chinese electric cars and solar cells with higher tariffs​

4 hours ago
By Natalie Sherman,Business reporter, New York


US President Joe Biden is ramping up tariffs on Chinese-made electric cars, solar panels, steel and other goods.

The White House said the measures, which include a 100% border tax on electric cars from China, were a response to unfair policies and intended to protect US jobs.

China has already criticised the plans, which were signalled in advance.

Analysts said the tariffs were largely symbolic and intended to shore up votes in a tough election year.

They follow months of criticism by former President Donald Trump, who is running for the White House against Mr Biden and has argued his rival's support for electric cars would "kill" the US car industry.

Mr Biden on Tuesday vowed that he would not let China "unfairly control the market" for electric vehicles and other key goods, including batteries, computer chips and basic medical supplies.

"If the pandemic taught us anything - we need to have a secure supply of essentials here at home," he said.

The tariffs announced on Tuesday will hit an estimated $18bn worth of imports, the White House said.

As well as a rise from 25% to 100% on electric vehicle tariffs, levies on solar cells will increase from 25% to 50%.

Tariff rates on certain steel and aluminium products will more than triple to 25%, up from 7.5% or less.

The moves expand sweeping border taxes that the US imposed on Chinese goods under Mr Trump, citing unfair trade practices.

During the Biden administration's review of the measures, the government received nearly 1,500 comments, the vast majority of them from business owners arguing that they were driving up prices for everyday Americans, and asking them to be removed.

Mr Biden's decision to leave the tariffs in place and expand them into new areas - even as persistent US inflation has weighed on his approval ratings - is a testament to the dramatic shift in trade views for both political parties in the US, which had long championed the benefits of global commerce.

Wendy Cutler, a former trade official for the US who is now vice-president of the Asia Society Policy Institute, said she believed Americans were willing to accept higher priced cars, in exchange for helping to protect US companies and jobs.

"We've seen this movie before - with solar, with steel and [aluminium], and when it comes to cars and other products the United States needs to get ahead of the curve," she said.

"It's all about trade-offs and maybe in the immediate term cars become more expensive but in the longer term we want to have a competitive industry here."

In a briefing with reporters, White House officials denied that domestic politics had influenced the decision.
They said Beijing had shown no sign of moving away from practices that harm the US, including rules that force western companies to share information with the aim of stealing it and subsidies that have put firms in a position to pump out products well beyond expected demand.

"They're flooding the market," Mr Biden said. "It's not competing - it's cheating."
The White House said the tariffs were targeted and it did not expect them to stoke inflation, contrasting their approach with that of Mr Trump.

The former president, who once called himself a "tariff man", has campaigned on a proposed across-the-board 10% tariff on foreign imports, which could jump to 60% for goods from China.
He has also attacked Mr Biden for promoting electric vehicles, a move he has argued will destroy US car companies, key employers in states such as Michigan that will be key election battlegrounds in November.

Erica York, senior economist at the Tax Foundation, said both candidates were "heading down the same path" of higher barriers to trade and looking inward "rather than looking at what we can do on the policy front that would actually make our sectors more competitive".

She said the administration's promotion of the tariffs as strategic was a "euphemism for protection for sectors that are politically important for this administration".

"It comes down to a political economy calculus rather than what makes the most economic sense or what's most affordable for US consumers."

The US already imposes steep tariffs on electric vehicles made in China, which has made sales of such cars negligible.

But Washington has been watching warily as sales by Chinese companies in Europe and other countries increase.

White House officials said ensuring that green technologies were not dominated by a single country was critical to making the transition successful and sustainable in the long run.

While moves targeting electric vehicles are likely to have minimal practical effect, the business world is waiting to see if Europe will take similar steps, said Natasha Ebtehadj of Artemis Investment Management.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-69004520
 
I saw this on youtube. This hybrid is honestly nice. It’s overly engineered though. Tank turns and floating for 30 mins? Who needs that?


 
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