Economy Why a small China-made EV has global auto execs and politicians on edge

[jefferz]

Good for those who are struggling.

Maybe the companies who are moaning can make economy cars as well?

China already has that covered.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

I guess to counteract this we can all buy cheap mopeds and drive them to work instead of buying overpriced American EV vehicles.

- They arent cheap here. Except for Shineray.
And their vehicles are quite good!

Lifan was the chinese vehicle manufacturer that come here more than a decade ago. Really good acessible cars, and for the price, and what others manufactures sell he in Brazil, they were quite complete vehicles.

 

[STRYDG]

Chinese cars are dangerous, including the flagships from the "best" brands. Key components routinely experience random complete failure, e.g. brakes failing in the middle of the highway. Aside from dangerous failures, basic components that should be lasting decades will break within months on a brand new car. The build quality is absolutely abysmal. EVs' batteries often catch fire spontaneously, creating a borderline inextinguishable chemical fire. This is already a problem with normal EVs, but the risk is on another level with the Chinese models. Not to mention that there's no question the CCP will put adversarial software into the electronics of the car itself; trust that you don't want anything to do with that.

Realistically I don't think they'll be sold in the US. Legislation will block it, probably not to protect people but if nothing else to protect vested interests in the industry.

Can confirm, cars less than a few years old already rusting.

 

[trendnick]

I feel like all these electric cars are just just fancy bodies strapped to battery packs and 4 wheels.

Put a smartphone in the center of it and you can drive it. lol

 

[tastaylvr]

Americans are so stupid they don’t realise that the only reason they pay so much for a car is because there are laws in place that make it illegal for manufacturers to sell direct to consumers. It’s a literal cartel that makes you pay triple the cost of production.

Muh quality in reality is muh getting screwed in the ass

 

[PEB]

US battery technology race has become extremely important for the global development of lower cost EV's. China the government is willing to spend 100's billions in the global race to develop lower cost batteries and chips/AI technology. US is suffering with the political in fighting and that is a drag on US involvement towards the development of new technology to deal with these issues. This is the thing you cannot make an internal combustion engine car with reasonable performance and livability as an electric car in the next 5 years.

With fewer moving parts and higher density batteries there with be a crossover point in some cases it has happened already as Lithium is replaced with sodium as the electrolytic material. Sodium is vastly more abundant is way cheaper and safer currently less energy efficient but that will change. Of course the development of solid state batteries are moving along to make them cheaper and higher energy density then Lithium or sodium. China betting on US political infighting to finance these projects with give China a much needed jump over the US.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

was just in Shanghai, very impressive considering their start. my friend told me they produce every piece of the car themselves so they are quite affordable.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Michael Wayland@MIKEWAYLAND

• The China-built BYD Seagull, a small all-electric hatchback, starts at just 69,800 yuan (or less than $10,000), and reportedly banks a profit for the increasingly influential Chinese automaker.
• There’s fear among global automakers that BYD and other Chinese rivals could flood their markets, undercutting domestic production and vehicle prices.
• “Ultimately the Chinese will come to the U.S.,” said Marin Gjaja, chief operating officer for Ford’s EV unit, during a recent interview with CNBC.

Growing concerns​

BYD’s rise comes at a precarious time for global auto industry dynamics.

While China’s automakers expand, America’s traditional automakers have shrunk in both their domestic market and China.
Their decline in the U.S. has come with the arrival of Japanese automakers such as Toyota Motor, Nissan Motor and Honda Motor, as well as, more recently, South Korean auto giant Hyundai Motor and its Kia unit.

The so-called Big Three U.S. automakers — GM, Ford and Chrysler, now owned by Stellantis — have watched their U.S. market share deteriorate from 75% in 1984 to about 40% in 2023, according to industry data.

Politicians in the U.S., concerned about their local auto industries, have taken aim at Chinese imports and lawmakers in Europe have launched a probe into the rise of China-made EVs.

“We are very concerned about China bigfooting our industry in the United States even as we are building up now this incredible backbone of manufacturing,” Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said March 6 during a discussion panel at an Axios event.

Republican Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida has proposed sharply boosting tariffs on Chinese vehicle imports by $20,000 per vehicle to stop the country “from flooding U.S. auto markets.”

Currently, Chinese-built EVs are subject to a 27.5% tariff when imported into the U.S. That includes a 2.5% tariff that generally applies to imported cars plus an additional 25% tariff introduced by the Trump administration in 2018 on China-made vehicles.

Chinese automakers could still build in Mexico, though, and import vehicles to the U.S. from there through the USMCA, formerly the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA.

However, former President Donald Trump – the front-runner among Republicans in the 2024 presidential race – on Saturday suggested instituting a 100% tariff on cars made in Mexico by Chinese companies, should he be elected to a second term.

Maybe someone can change my mind but when it comes to cars I am strongly against tariffs. Keeping Chinese vehicles at arms length might be a good idea since they are an adversary nation and their vehicles could be a Trojan horse for spyware but I don't see any reason why we should have tariffs on vehicles from allied nations like Japan, Korea, or those from Europe. Its not like cars are a luxury item, for the vast majority of Americans they're a necessity. I don't like that fact and as I've made clear in many threads I advocate for changing that ASAP but its the current reality and given that I should be able to buy cheap Japanese cars.

Personally I am skeptical of tech products that come out of China, which these days includes cars with how digitized they are, but if I could get a new car for ~$10,000 and the government imposed tariffs or otherwise made it more difficult to acquire I'd be pissed. If you're going to block Chinese cars then at least don't put tariffs on Japanese ones.

Buy a used Toyota. You'll come out way ahead.

I agree and in light if that don't you think we should get rid of tariffs on brands that come from allied nations like Japan?

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

Can you buy these on Amazon?

 

[PG29 red0 Jr]

It'll be interesting to see the future of auto companies. In general I can't help but feel like they are very overpriced at the moment.

Vehicles are expensive and inefficient due to government regulation.

Cars like this cannot exist anymore thanks to the government:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36519807/1992-honda-civic-vx-reliability-maintenance/

 

[PG29 red0 Jr]

In Mexico you could buy what in the US we called a B13 Sentra for $7,600 up until like 2018.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/nissan-tsuru-cease-production-mexico-next-may/

In the US, we would have been able to buy cars like this too, but the government got involved and screwed everyone.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

was just in Shanghai, very impressive considering their start. my friend told me they produce every piece of the car themselves so they are quite affordable.

- And they're quite quality vehicles. I havent met a bad Shineray never!

 

[Lucas1980]

Can you buy these on Amazon?

Naahh those rice boxes have to be purchased on Temu...even Amazon has some standards

 

[Ruprecht]

Are these the ones that are flooding my social media feeds about them bursting into flames?

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Maybe someone can change my mind but when it comes to cars I am strongly against tariffs. Keeping Chinese vehicles at arms length might be a good idea since they are an adversary nation and their vehicles could be a Trojan horse for spyware but I don't see any reason why we should have tariffs on vehicles from allied nations like Japan, Korea, or those from Europe. Its not like cars are a luxury item, for the vast majority of Americans they're a necessity. I don't like that fact and as I've made clear in many threads I advocate for changing that ASAP but its the current reality and given that I should be able to buy cheap Japanese cars.

Personally I am skeptical of tech products that come out of China, which these days includes cars with how digitized they are, but if I could get a new car for ~$10,000 and the government imposed tariffs or otherwise made it more difficult to acquire I'd be pissed. If you're going to block Chinese cars then at least don't out tariffs on Japanese ones.

I agree and in light if that don't you think we should get rid of tariffs on brands that come from allied nations like Japan?

- It's to protecty the inside industry and keep american jobs afloat. They did the same thing here when Lifan come here. Our internal industry sells over-priced cars, that come empty. Lifan was selling cars containg what is considered deluxe intens here, but selling for the same oprice of a popular car.

So they did everything to make their life hard, making hard to replacing intens to enter, to open a oficine to atend their cars.

 

[Natural Order]

That POS tin can won’t sell in NA, lol.

 

[HomeCheese]

Have any of you seen the new, less than $20k Toyota ICE pickup? I think it will be released in Thailand, a stripped down pickup designed to be a working car. I hope they come out in US eventually.

 

[mjfan23]

So we are afraid our consumers might buy a vehicle that gives them a better bang for buck?

Maybe sanction the consumers or better yet decker war on em. China is too far to engage directly let’s just go after the consumers

 

[Islam Imamate]

- It's to protecty the inside industry and keep american jobs afloat. They did the same thing here when Lifan come here. Our internal industry sells over-priced cars, that come empty. Lifan was selling cars containg what is considered deluxe intens here, but selling for the same oprice of a popular car.

So they did everything to make their life hard, making hard to replacing intens to enter, to open a oficine to atend their cars.

I get that but its an insufficient reason IMO. We're supposed to be a free market country and we've made cars a necessity by underinvesting in public transport and building everything around the car only to put tariffs on foreign automobiles? Everyone knows the gold standard of affordability and reliability are Toyota and Honda and yet we're making them less accessible.

If we're going to put tariffs on items it should be on luxury items or those that are not a necessity like video game consoles. Not that I'd support that either but it'd be less dumb than tariffs on cars.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That POS tin can won’t sell in NA, lol.

If it was available in NA the primary reason I wouldn't buy it is because of the risk of Chinese spyware. Personally not a fan of EVs but if I could get a new one for ~$10,000-$11,000 it'd be a no brainer.