Who is greater Jon Jones or Daniel Cormier

[Workaholic]

Jones is probably the better fighter but DC is the greater fighter by virtue of his clean USADA record and doing what Jones always refused to and winning the HW title

Let's remember Jones is still only 30 though, and even now after all of this bullshit he still has time to turn his legacy around if he actually wants to

If he stays clean the rest of his career, beats Gus, maybe beats DC again, wins the HW title and does it all without popping... as crazy as it sounds it will erase a lot of the doubt he's created around himself. And he's totally capable of doing all of that

But right now, I'll say DC

 

[VVarhead]

D.C.

If Jones wins a 3rd bout at HW, he surpasses DC once again.

 

[BC]

Jon had 6 UFC belts at age 25 and destroyed 5 former light heavyweight champions.

It’s close due to Cormier’s outstanding accomplishments, but I give the nod to Jon due to his resume:

- Cormier
- Shogun
- Machida
- Evans
- Rampage
- Vitor
- Gus
- Glover

- Youngest UFC champion
- 8 championship defenses
- 10 UFC belts altogether

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Yeah just wanted to go with what's been proven before the Jones huggers try to dox me over "false claims".

That's fine, I just wanted to post that cause it gets forgotten and if anyone knows what doesn't look right in a drug test it's the guy who was getting a bunch of athletes on PEDs to pass tests successfully for years.

 

[surrealworlds]

This. The question was not who is the better fighter but who is greater. Who has the greater career.
Jon Jones is the better fighter, at least on PEDS.

DC has the greater resume.
First Double Champ to defend both belts, never pissed hot for PEDS, Strikeforce GP. Literally the only mark on his record is to a juiced JJ.
So JJ is the better fighter with an asterisk, DC is greater.

DC has the better resume IMO, he's a 2 division champion with a bunch of title defenses and never got popped for PEDs multiple times or had suspicious test results like Jones did the first time he fought DC. I'm not sure if Jones was ever not on PEDs in MMA.

 

[doubleg]

Not who is better

Who is greater

Who has had the better career
Obvs Jones. Who he beat and how dominant he was.

Jones amount of defences. Who he beaten. And his legacy far better highlight reel.

 

[sb413197]

If you ignore Jones' failed tests etc, then Jones. If you don't, Cormier. I personal can't ignore Jones' failed tests so selected Cormier.

 

[Threetrees]

Jon had 6 UFC belts at age 25 and destroyed 5 former light heavyweight champions.

It’s close due to Cormier’s outstanding accomplishments, but I give the nod to Jon due to his resume:

- Cormier
- Shogun
- Machida
- Evans
- Rampage
- Vitor
- Gus
- Glover

- Youngest UFC champion
- 8 championship defenses
- 10 UFC belts altogether

Good post imho.

I feel like there is some recency bias with Daniel Cormier.
Obviously the failed drug tests weigh very heavily for some people, but it seems to me at least that prior to that first Daniel Cormier match Jon Jones had arguably already established the best resume in MMA history (ignoring the big three, Fedor/GSP/Anderson).

Daniel has some history making accomplishments, but so does Jon Jones and to me Shogun at what seemed to be the peak of a second career resurgence at 23 is weighted nearly as big as defending belts in two weight classes.

People who didn’t see it live, or who have forgotten a bit, kind of undersell the magnitude of Jon Jones dominating Shogun, Machida, Rampage and Rashad in what a 12 month span?

Those were three of the ten best LHWs in history at that point, and Rashad who was a former undefeated champion and considered to be elite of the elite

 

[jpadilla295]

Jon Jones beat tf out of some of the best fighters in their prime. Also took the souls from legends such as Shogun

 

[machidafan99]

Cormier has one belt he did not earn and another he won't rematch the longest standing champ and cherry picks oppenents worse than tyron ever did.

I don't respect him or his fake good guy act.

JJ was correct in saying he couldn't cut it in the Olympics.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

On paper? DC possibly.

In terms of raw talent and overall greatness? JJ.

JJ is a GOAT , which DC, while being a great fighter, will never be.

 

[Threetrees]

JJ was correct in saying he couldn't cut it in the Olympics.

This is clearly not even true. People don’t really seem to get what it means to make a Freestyle Olympic team and compete. Fourth is nothing to scoff at. Jordan Burroughs, who won a gold medal before, has missed the podium in the olympics and placed fourth.

Freestyle wrestling has one of the biggest international talent pools with some of the highest parity in any Olympic sport. And unlike sports that have a similar amount of parity, it attracts truly great athletes even in the US (where the best athletes tend to trend towards the big team sports). I think Jon has a better pedigree in MMA, but I would be happy to make the argument that Daniel Cormier as a whole is the more accomplished athlete when it comes to multiple sports. Though I’d also concede that Daniel has like 8 years or whatever it is on Jon, and Jon has plenty of time in MMA to make a lot of that up.

 

[BC]

Good post imho.

I feel like there is some recency bias with Daniel Cormier.
Obviously the failed drug tests weigh very heavily for some people, but it seems to me at least that prior to that first Daniel Cormier match Jon Jones had arguably already established the best resume in MMA history (ignoring the big three, Fedor/GSP/Anderson).

Daniel has some history making accomplishments, but so does Jon Jones and to me Shogun at what seemed to be the peak of a second career resurgence at 23 is weighted nearly as big as defending belts in two weight classes.

I will say DC is very close, just in terms of how decorative his resume is, Strikeforce heavyweight Grand Prix champ, UFC light heavyweight, UFC heavyweight champ.

Jones, Silva, GSP, Fedor, DC’s name belongs in the mix right now.

 

[Threetrees]

I will say DC is very close, just in terms of how decorative his resume is, Strikeforce heavyweight Grand Prix champ, UFC light heavyweight, UFC heavyweight champ.

Jones, Silva, GSP, Fedor, DC’s name belongs in the mix right now.

I personally have it Silva, Jones, GSP, DC, Fedor.

But that’s just me. I agree that Daniel’s name belongs in that conversation of top 8 ish MMA fighter of all time on nearly anyone’s list.

 

[WeedLordBonerHitler]

It seems like one of these threads happens like every 20 minutes. Along with the Conor and Khabib threads.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Good post imho.

I feel like there is some recency bias with Daniel Cormier.
Obviously the failed drug tests weigh very heavily for some people, but it seems to me at least that prior to that first Daniel Cormier match Jon Jones had arguably already established the best resume in MMA history (ignoring the big three, Fedor/GSP/Anderson).

Daniel has some history making accomplishments, but so does Jon Jones and to me Shogun at what seemed to be the peak of a second career resurgence at 23 is weighted nearly as big as defending belts in two weight classes.

People who didn’t see it live, or who have forgotten a bit, kind of undersell the magnitude of Jon Jones dominating Shogun, Machida, Rampage and Rashad in what a 12 month span?

Those were three of the ten best LHWs in history at that point, and Rashad who was a former undefeated champion and considered to be elite of the elite

Shogun blew out his knee in the Machida rematch, Shogun's best fights were in 2005 and his fights with Liddell and the first Machida fight, his body fell apart again after that.

DC's biggest win(Stipe, HW title defense record holder) beats Jones' best win(DC) especially when Jones' best win was likely on PEDs and DC has only lost to Jones who most likely was on PEDs all three times they were scheduled to fight, the testing just wasn't good enough to catch him the first time, but it looked highly suspicious when your ratios vary 80% and you have 10% of the testosterone you should have.

 

[BC]

I personally have it Silva, Jones, GSP, DC, Fedor.

But that’s just me. I agree that Daniel’s name belongs in that conversation of top 8 ish MMA fighter of all time on nearly anyone’s list.

Personally unbiasedly I would have

Jones
Silva
GSP
DC
Fedor

Fanboy in me:

Silva
Jones
GSP
Fedor
BJ Penn

 

[ChoJinn]

JJ mostly beat a bunch of grossly undersized (remember Belfort hanging off of him?) name-fighters on the backslide of their careers, while juiced. The sole time he fought someone his size he got his ass kicked, albeit eeking out a decision victory. He did beat D.C. twice, which is itself an accomplishment, but again he's juiced. There is nothing legitimate about his career, and to say JJ is GOAT or simply "greater" than anyone, much less D.C., is to abandon all pretense of meritocratic evaluation, which is (or should be) the fckng point of MMA. We might as well argue about whether Jake the Snake is greater than Lex Luger.

 

[Crimp_Keeper]

DC has title defenses in 2 divisions, I pick DC.

Bingo.
And has never popped for steroids once, let alone two times.

 

[Threetrees]

Shogun blew out his knee in the Machida rematch, Shogun's best fights were in 2005 and his fights with Liddell and the first Machida fight, his body fell apart again after that.

I should probably rephrase.

I think that the opinion of Shogun at the time after both Machida fights was that he had matured into a fighter who wasnt quite as explosive, but who had figured out how to strategically use his best gifts to win.

Much of this is predicated on just how unsolvable Machida was at the time. This was when Anderson, Fedor and GSP were considered- in their own ways- uniquely untouchable and the fan base was having debates on whether or not Machida could beat Anderson Silva